GRE pipe for chilled water system. 4

[moideen]

I lack prior experience with GRE pipe. For one of our hotel projects, we were considering replacing the ABS pipe with MS (ERW black steel pipe). However, there have been suggestions that GRE pipe may outperform steel pipe in a chilled water system. Does anyone have experience using GRE in chilled water system? Any insights would be greatly appreciated, as our planning is still in the initial stage.

The problem with the world is that intelligent people are full of doubts, while stupid ones are full of confidence.
-Charles Bukowski-

 

[LittleInch]

moideen,

No problem - we've said enough, but please respect the forum and let us know what the final outcome is and why.

We can learn as well from the actions and decisions of others.

LI

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[moideen]

The top management is now convinced that GRE is not the right choice. To support this decision, I presented recent damages to GRE pipes used in a 7-star hotel in Dubai, along with a technical report outlining our discussions. The pictures and images of the cracks were provided by the piping contractor. However, today I was asked to explore the potential use of PPR piping. It appears that some salespeople can be quite persuasive with their products. Anyway, I have limited knowledge of PPR piping, which is primarily used for domestic plumbing and transfer pumping systems, and its suitability for chilled water systems, especially in multi-story buildings. I was shown a LinkedIn post where PPR is mentioned as being used for chilled water systems.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/alternative-black-steel-pipes-chilled-water-system-hassan-chehade/

The problem with the world is that intelligent people are full of doubts, while stupid ones are full of confidence.
-Charles Bukowski-

 

[LittleInch]

Start a new thread....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[EngrPaper]

I am generally not a fan of PP/HDPE for chill water just because it has such a high coefficient of thermal expansion that shrinkage gets a little more interesting to manage. I have never heard of PPR, but if you don't have anyone with a good track record using the stuff, I would stay away. "But I saw on LinkedIn" doesn't really bode well in technical review.

 

[btrueblood]

PPR apparently is "Poly Propylene Random co-polymer", i.e. all the problems of PP and HDPE in a new, less well known package.

 

[LittleInch]

I don't know exactly what its COE is but PE is about 10 times steel so needs a lot of flexibility for chilled water. Looking around it also seems to not like UV, but that might not be an issue inside a hotel, but there are signs that it is more brittle and less flexible at lower temperatures.

Looks like you fuse it together like PE.

Must admit I had never heard of it before, but not really sure why it's any better or much different than PE? or PVC.

No idea about cost either.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[georgeverghese]

For a critical service utility like chilled water that may be running through inaccessible nooks and crannies all over a SEVEN star hotel, I would have thought the client would have insisted on painted seamless SS316 or SS316L pipe and SS fittings. Is 7 star only skin deep ?

 

[TugboatEng]

Painted SS piping in a damp chill water application (under insulation) is a recipe for disaster.

The best system would be the class 400 MIL-F-1183 fittings and brass piping. Velocities already need to be low for noise so copper based alloys will be well suited. The fittings are not terribly expensive and relatively easy to install.

 

[georgeverghese]

Oops, overlooked this requirement for insulation. With cellular or foam glass insulation for damp applications, thermal sprayed aluminum on SS piping is preferable to prevent corrosion under insulation in coastal or marine environments.

 

[LittleInch]

Is 7 star only skin deep ?

I thought you lived in Dubai?? Barely skin deep I would say....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[georgeverghese]

@LI, Haven't been to the ME so far; some of my work colleagues have. Does seem weird what goes on out there with posh shopping malls hardly anyone goes to. On the other hand, take a look at Scotland now - Dundee apparently has the highest incidence of cocaine /crack overdose in the whole of Europe.