Guidance beginning PE 3

[Buleeek]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some guidance/advice as I'm just at the beginning of my PE carrier path. I recently obtained the PE license and I want to start working on my own (partially). I also work for an engineering company where I do not seal anything (my boss is a PE).

1. Is it even possible to work for someone and working on your own projects? There is no conflict here ?

2. Should I open a business in order to do my own PE work (design, structural evaluation, etc. ? Or it can be done without having a business (1099)? My boss will not be involved in my work at all.

3. What insurance would you recommend me to get? The projects I will be working on rather small jobs (residential, small commercial, sometimes steel connections).

Thank you for your input.

 

[phamENG]

CWB1 - I'm curious about the precedent you're basing that on. My guess is that it's mostly regarding patents, trademarks, and copyrights in product design and manufacture, correct? In that context, I agree with you - so long as the IP in question is related to the business of the employer. (If you work for a medical device company and invent a new shape for a golf club, they'll probably have a tough time claiming any ownership.)

In the AEC industry, and for structural engineers specifically, there tends to be very little specific IP that can be claimed in any of our designs. I'd say 90% to 95% of the designs developed by structural engineers are an amalgamation of industry standards to produce a one off design. Our designs are not patented, and most just rely on automatic copyright without registration. So the employer would have to prove that it was completed in the scope of employment to claim ownership. There are exceptions - the SidePlate, for instance - where I can get in trouble for mimicking a patented design, or if I design a proprietary connection based on an issue that surfaced at work, then I'm on the hook and my employer could sue for ownership of the copyright/patent and damages as applicable. But taking a run-of-the-mill commission from an architect to provide consulting services...the "in the scope of employment" piece of it gets tough to prove unless the employment contract/agreement between the employee and the employer clearly state that ALL structural engineering performed by the employee at any time and in any place during belongs to the employer. Of course if I answered phone calls about it at my desk, used a company computer/software, or otherwise involved my employer (even tangentially), they could have a decent case.

The odds of that blowing back on the client in this case is still pretty slim, though. Structural moonlighting jobs are rarely worth more than a few hundred bucks...a few thousand if you're lucky. 10 story buildings are hard enough for small one or two engineer shops running full time and with a sound reputation to get...some guy or gal doing it nights and weekends generally won't get one. So what kind of damages will the employer really be suing for?

In general terms you're right - because general terms can include the invention of the next iPhone which would absolutely be worth suing over - but for a junior structural engineer looking at picking up some work on the side I think the risk you're talking about is vanishingly small.

That's not to say I think it's ethical - it's not unless you go through the steps we've talked about to make sure everyone is informed and in agreement.

 

[Buleeek]

Thanks again for all responses. I talked to my boss and he would be okay with it as long as there is no conflict of interest.

I understand that the insurance for a guy like me will be very expensive and it would be difficult to have enough work only working part time.
I decided to focus ONLY on steel drafting for now. Is LLC sufficient to run a business of this type?

 

[phamENG]

Insurance isn't necessarily expensive. Talk with your local broker that serves the AE industry. I was able to get a policy for less than $2k/year when I started out part time. Now if you're just offering drafting services and making zero engineering decisions, then you might as well open an LLC that only does drafting and don't advertise engineering. I'd discuss the appropriate corporate structuring and possible liability exposure simply by the nature of you being a licensed engineer. Also discuss the rules of sealing work product with him/her. Some places require a PE to seal all of their engineering related work, and depending on how your state defines things your drafting could, potentially, fall into that category. Best to talk it over with an attorney knowledgeable in our industry. A good AE insurance broker can point you in the right direction.

 

[SJBombero]

ASCE also brokers a product specifically for engineers doing part time work for themselves.

 

[Buleeek]

What if I only do drafting, but one day I noticed a big mistake in EOR calculations (for instance W12 beam instead of W21- beam really undersized). Do I, as a PE, take any responsibility for that mistake? Should I notify EOR about that ?

 

[phamENG]

Whether you're a PE or not, you should bring things that look like problems to the EOR's attention.

 

[SJBombero]

Assuming your scope of expertise overlaps the work you are drafting, you could be held accountable for failing to notify the EOR. It would be the same as making a site visit and failing to inform the owner of a dangerous structural condition. However, I imagine it would have to be a matter of gross negligence because you can easily argue that while drafting it isn't your habit to study the details closely enough to recognize design errors. You are just transferring geometry to the paper.