H&H computer models for small civil engineering frim

[pkcola]

We are a small civil engineering company that designs civil/site plans for residential developments in SC with the majority of our projects ranging from 25-35 acres. We also do some small commercial sites and flood studies as needed for a site. The majority of our sites require on-site detention and the use of the SCS 24-hour storm events along with volume based pond routings. We have been using a dos-based program called "Drain:Edge" which has worked very well for our needs but there is no windows-based version.. We are looking for another computer program to replace it. I have been researching and the programs Hydraflow Hydrographs, HydroCad and SWMMS5 are mentioned a lot. We need to be able to size and design the storm drainage system along with the detention pond. I used the HydroCad sampler and liked it a lot. I have inqured about Hydraflow but we cannot purchase it without purchasing AutoCAD Civil 3D. We already use the TerraModel CAD system which calculates and plots the HGL for storm pipe systems when given the peak flows. I've read some on the SWMMS5 but not so sure about it.
Based on what our company does, I would like some opinions as to which of the programs would be a good fit and if there are some other programs that would be better??

 

[gbam]

pkcola - there is free software out there that will provide routing information for you. FHWA has Visual Urban which has a pond routing component and it is free from their website. We use HEC1 for regional sized basins (ac-ft) and visual urban for localized basins (CU-FT). Visual urban is a GUI so it works well with windows. My view is why buy when its available for free. Iff you need to buy then Haested has many programs for hydraulics (now Bentley); pondpack, flow master, culvert master and stormcad which are all stand alone. We have access to these as well but I still fall back on HEC1 and Visual Urban for routing. Here are the two websites:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/engineering/hydraulics/index.cfm

http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/Water+and+Wastewater+Network+Analysis+and+Design/Haestad.htm

 

[francesca]

Look at WinTR-55 for NRCS hydrology and detention basin design and EPASWMM for a free SWMM engine. EPANET will also do pressure hydraulics. HEC-RAS will do your flood studies/open channel hydraulics.

 

[TerryScan]

Why pay when there are free options? Productivity. Sometimes, the ease of use,*reporting capabilities*, and support of public domain engineering software can be lacking. I do use a number of free programs, but sometimes it is not worth it.

I am a long time user of HydroCAD and would highly recommend going with it. I have used Pondpack, TR-55, TR-20 Hydraflow Hydrographs, ICPR and other packages. For the uses you describe, I think HydroCAD will serve you best. Your impressions from the demo probably speak for themselves.

The only time I set HydroCAD aside is when I need to have full dynamic routing. In these cases I use ICPR (reviewers around here prefer Hydrocad reporting...mostly due to familiarity).

 

[gbam]

TerryScan brings up a good point. You may want to check with your local agencies on which software they accept.

 

[beej67]

Terry - doesn't HydroCAD do dynamic routing if you change it in the calculation settings?

I was in the same fix when I started my firm last year, doing work primarily in Georgia, and have been very pleased with HydroCAD. Go to their website and pay them a few bucks and they'll email you a code that will turn your evaluation copy into a 'real' copy. Pay a few bucks more and they'll upgrade you to whatever number of nodes you need, and you can pay in increments depending on what your node limit is.

I have experience with:
Hydraflow Hydrographs
XP-SWMM
HEC-HMS
HydroCAD

and I prefer HydroCAD of those.

francesca is correct, though, if you want to stick with free stuff all the ones she mentioned will encompass just about anything you'd ever need to do. I'm defaulting to HydroCAD for site hydrology and to free stuff for everything else.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[TerryScan]

beej67

HydroCAD does have a "dynamic routing" and "sim-route" options which account for downstream tailwater dynamically. However, neither truly handles reverse flows (some trickery can be done with "sim-route", but it's not worth it imho).

http://www.hydrocad.net/tailwater.htm

http://www.hydrocad.net/simroute.htm

Other software (ICPR, Pondpack, SWMM...) does handle backwater and reverse flows using FULL dynamic equations (conservation of mass/energy).

For the majority of projects, especially those outlined in the original post, this won't be necessary.

(I prefer HydroCAD most of the time. However, I am in a FLAT coastal area where backwater effects and reverse flows can sometimes be quite significant in a design with small tolerances.)

 

[beej67]

Thanks Terry. I'm still using XP-SWMM in coastal areas, but will probably switch to EPA-SWMM at some point.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[SMIAH]

I do like HEC HMS for retention pond calculations.

Exporting to Excel is simple.
The "outflow structures" method for the outlet is quite easy to use when you have orifice, spillway, dam tops, etc.

Free.

 

[pkcola]

Thanks for all your responses. Can HEC-HMS be used to design storm drainage?

 

[gbam]

no, HMS is a hydrology program with routing. For stormdrain analyses see one of the above suggestions or code a spreadsheet. A spreadsheet should only take a few days depending on how complex you make it.

 

[amb2002]

pkcola – I used Drain:Edge when I worked for Cox and Dinkins in Columbia, SC in 97-99. I always liked the programs’ simplicity. I’ve have thought that HydroCAD is what Drain:Edge could have been if C&D could have developed a Windows version.

I would reiterate that the free software definitely has its uses, particularly HY-8 and Hydraulic Toolbox from the FHWA link that gbam noted; and, of course, HEC-RAS. I have used the Bentley/Haested software – they work well, but (at least the last time I looked) were quite expensive. I tend to fall back on HydroCAD for the type of work you describe. I find HydroCAD a simple (but powerful software), particularly for the cost.

 

[pkcola]

Thanks so much for your response. Its nice to hear of someone else who has used Drain:Edge. Are you still in SC? I think we will be going with Hydrocad. If anyone else has used Drain:Edge and are now using something else I would greatly appreciate your input.

 

[elev8848]

EPA SWMM5 can be put to use to perform all that you mentioned and much more. But oen needs to invest time to understand ways things are represented in SWMM5.

 

[pkcola]

does win tr-20 do most everything that hydrocad can do?

 

[psmart]

pkcola: HydroCAD offers many features not available in TR-20.

Here's an overview:

http://www.hydrocad.net/info.htm

Peter Smart
HydroCAD Software

http://www.hydrocad.net