Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

  • Congratulations waross on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

Handling "bad press" within a working group 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

silverspeed

New member
Mar 9, 2003
9
0
0
US
I work within a large engineering group in stress analysis for a multinational corporation. I'm in the habit of checking my work especially considering that it is for the substantiation of flight hardware. As a consequence I've found mistakes in work, by company experts, that is being done and had been done before my joining the company. I've highlighted this purely in the interest of flight safety. I have also found myself wining technical arguments with my lead to the point of him now always calling in others into the argument in an effort to wear me out.

All this has earned me unpopularity amongst management over time and their negative exclamations like about me "doing a science project" despite being one of a handful of whom who take about half the time it takes to normally release engineering substantiation. It has gotten to the point now where fellow colleagues are now taking the opportunity to dismiss me, and my performance reviews which were excellent since I joined a few years back, are now artificially degraded to support smaller pay increments by any means. As for the hackling, I'm often too steeped in my work due to the complexities involved to put a stop to them; they often seem like a drive-by shooting!

I love the work but the daily onslaught is draining and distractive, and I'm not sure if this happens elsewhere. Any advice on how to turn the tide against me and the outright false claims would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
SS
 
Replies continue below

Recommended for you

You won't win any awards for spelling.

I only mention that because it suggests, from here, that maybe your attention to detail is not quite as good as you think it is. Or maybe you just don't think that way, and are mathematically gifted to compensate.

None of that matters.

Performance reviews are a really crappy way to deal with people, but when they start going downhill, you're screwed. It's not right, it's not fair, it's not mathematically supportable, but it's what the HR weenies use.

GET OUT. NOW.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
The assumption is that you are right. You are with a company where the pressures are on and may lead to some bad judgement calls by management. If this is the situation then Mike is right. It isn't going to get better.

But, the "doing a science project" comment struck a chord with me.
When I left education and spent some time as a "nail driver" before getting a "proper" job.
Perched high in the rafters of a house we were framing I was expected to call down the measurements of the filler pieces to the saw-man on the ground who would cut the piece and throw it up.
"eleven and a sixteenth" I called down.
The boss intervened. "Eleven full" says he and calls up to me "You're a nail driver, not a g**d**d cabinet maker".

Hopefully the criticisms you are receiving are not valid. If they are not then Mike has it right.

But if there is scope for nit-picking within what you do and you are being over-fastidious and it and causing there to be problems, then maybe you need to rethink the situation because if you move from here to another employer, life isn't going to get any easier.

JMW
 
In the UK we say that some people go to the fine end of a fart when doing work, ie. picking minor faults, or doing unnecessary work and going over the top. You sound like you're diligent, which isn't such a bad thing, but possibly going to that fine end. Instead of having 'technical arguments' try having discussions instead and look for that compromise that pleases all. I say this for your next job as in this one you've been tainted and it's very difficult to resolve the situation unless your boss moves on, or you do.

Tata
 
Best compliment I ever got from a boss: "I gotta go. Tick has a page full of numbers and that means it's important." (Boss interrupted conversation with a director and VP.)

As much as I would like to believe that facts and results speak for themselves, it just isn't true. Humans are irrational and just don't work that way.

You may be correct, but you are making people look bad. Not the key to popularity. You need to find ways to illustrate the problem and present a solution that doesn't make someone else look like a loser. You need to look more like the boss's asset than the boss's a$$-pain.

 
Tick has good advice. Think of how you'd like to be caught in a mistake - boss calling you out during an all-hands meeting, or the boss quietly calling you into the office for a chat, and discussion of how to fix things. Use the same techniques when passing bad news up the chain as you'd like to have used for the opposite flow. A good boss will appreciate the candor and work with you.
 
Sad to say agendas trump facts. I've argued technical positions with bosses before, didn't always win. If public safety or client interests are seriously affected, consider if you have ethical or professional obligations to blow the whistle. Otherwise, a little tact never hurt.
 
Thanks one and all for your input. I appreciate and was heartened by your insight and advice. It's interesting to note responses to the indication of the "science project" cliche. I'm sure there won't be a hull loss because of spelling mistakes in my first paragraphs in this thread but last time I checked, certification is based on engineering science, whether by test or analysis.

In an unexpected twist of fate, I've been reassigned as lead engineer for critical flight hardware. My ex-lead has been promoted out of his position into a non-technical managerial role. Having been a "diplomat" to the point of reasonable compromises and goodwill, I draw the line when safety of flight is compromised on a whim.
 
silverspeed (Aeronautics)

Congratulations, Your next task will be seeing how your fellow colleagues, who will now be working under you, react.

B.E.
 
Well done, I guess you weren't as unpopular as you thought, at least with management.
The real challenge will be working as a team; time to practise your tact.
 
It seems management has balanced your worth against their problems with your "science project approach" and have given due reward..... congratulations. A good mark for management too.
Maybe.
But, be sure to ask yourself what have they rewarded.
Perhaps they have rewarded your ability as "..being one of a handful of whom who take about half the time it takes to normally release engineering substantiation." but are they still concerned about the Science Project approach.
This new position may be an opportunity to discriminate between what is essential and what is simply purist.
I assume, incidentally, that this appointment is unconditional? That is to say, there isn't a trial period attached? You don't say which country you work in.
If this is the UK, or any similar country where hiring and firing cannot simply be at the whim of management, and you have had a trial period attached, be careful.

JMW
 
Much appreciate the congratulations, but like you indicated, JMW, I'm wondering if the appointment is unconditional afterall. Considering that management has been hung-up on what they consider to be a "science project" approach, I'd be suprised if they were aware of anything other than their year-end "sweetners" or the next rung in their ladder upwards.

After all, veterans and subject-matter experts here have indicated that management is comprised largely of those who don't actually know what a science project is, let alone the business of selling working airplanes that don't fall to the ground. As far as I'm concerned, I've got a job to do!
 
Corus said:
"...it's very difficult to resolve the situation unless your boss moves on, or you do."

And here is your ex-lead who has been promoted into a "non-technical managerial role".... and they have moved you up.

I assume he is not now in your own chain of command?
This was one step up and two to the side for him?

It could be read that it was him that senior management was unhappy with and not you but couldn't show it openly and couldn't simply sack him.

In the UK, the way to get rid of dead wood is to promote dead wood out of line or way beyond their capability. The hope is this will make their CV look good to a competitor. At the very least, they get a job where they can do no harm and from which they will not advance.

I assume this means that you now report direct to his boss whereas before you were responsible to him.

If this is all the case, then you might just have reached those sunny uplands.

So, now ask yourself how much of your situation was down to you the ex-lead?

It may be your ex-lead was worried you were after his job and that he has been responsible for your poor reviews and for labelling you as the "science project guy".

I would suggest that errors are inevitable.
You have two approaches, hide them or address them as a normal part of the process. How do you treat people who make errors and how do you treat people who find errors?
Why is it usual to use some one else to check work? Because errors are natural and he who made the error often can't find the error.
It may be that senior management were starting to worry about the way your boss addressed these problems and that some day, if he was encouraging people to let errors slide, that collectively the lots of small errors could add up to a big disaster.

You need to think it through and if you are not sure, then go ask your new boss:

"Look Boss, I've been getting some stick and poor reviews despite doing what I thought was a good job and I've been getting stick as the "science project guy". So what are you saying when you give me this job? Where do you stand in all this? What are you expecting from me?"

If you think this is the right explanation then simply ask your new boss what he expects of you. You ought to do that anyway.
Chances are, if you deliver and make hi life easier, he could care less if you are the science project guy or the Easter bunny.

There are always two dangers of being good at what you do, especially when better than your boss.
The first is he will see you as a threat and try to make you look bad to management and the second is that you do too good a job ever to be allowed to move on.
There is also one chance he will see your value to him as an opportunity to make him look good so he can move up and so you can move into his place, always supporting his ambition and feeding yours.
Rare event.
The first two are more likely and then you need to work for a good company with good management. It might just be that you do.

Noting Berkshire's comment, chances are that if it is your ex-lead who has been sticking it to you that your fellow workers have been responding to his lead as the alpha and you the white wolf..

If they now see that the ex-lead lost the plot and management actually favours your approach, then their attitude can and should change, especially as you are now the alpha in your team.

You may anyway also need to think about how you deliver bad news and see if you can't use this step up as an opportunity to change the way you do things, if you do.
Not necessarily what you do, but how you do it.
You haven't said and we (I) have sort of assumed maybe there is something in this "science project" label and maybe that you do go about things in the wrong way.

For example, if you have been in the habit of using meetings to say "Joe made all these mistakes which I found and put right." Joe is not going to be your best friend.
If, however, as the new lead, you call Joe in privately and say "Hi Joe, I knew I could rely on you for good work. There are only a couple of minor "changes" to make and its good to go."
And then brag him up in meetings.
If you do like to play science project you may still be able to do so but without lots of knives seeking out your back. But it might just be that management like that "science project" approach and it may fit their corporate culture better than error suppression. You just need to find a new label and make sure your team understand your attitude to errors.

But it may be that you thought the problem was with you when your problem and management's problem was your ex-lead. Maybe they were concerned that he wasn't reacting as they'd like to your error spotting. If he puts you in the position of not correcting errors and there really is a safety issue that costs them money, he is the danger, not you.
They may like everything about you and had started to have doubts about him.

The fact they didn't push him up the chain of command but squeezed him sideways and gave you the lead could actually be most encouraging.

You really need to know if that is the case. Are you at risk or did you just move forward into the broad sunlit uplands?

If so this could really be a good time for you.
If you think this is the case, after and objective look at things, then forget asking your boss where he stands in all this. You simply assume he agrees with you on errors and your "science project" approach. The thing about the way leaders respond to errors is that if the appear to condone small errors they will breed and collectively become big errors. The right level of attention ensures people pay attention and try not to make errors.





JMW
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top