Hard Rock Hotel Collapse -- New Orleans -- Part 3 1

[NOLAscience]

"A key supplier of materials for the Hard Rock Hotel construction project tried to warn the builders they needed more steel supports on the upper floors, but those supports were never added before the partially built 18-story high-rise collapsed, according to records obtained by WWL-TV."

"WWL-TV obtained tens of thousands of pages of construction plans, emails, meeting minutes and material specifications that were turned over as discovery evidence in those civil lawsuits."

"Bradbury said no single engineering failure could have caused the collapse, but a change to the metal decking — the corrugated metal pans where concrete is poured to form the upper stories of the building — may have been a major contributing factor."

https://www.nola.com/news/business/article_88ee2ad2-bcbe-11eb-bfb8-5f39466cd1f5.html

 

[dik]

or negligence from not listening may have been the big contributing factor...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

Does the structural engineer specify both the beams and decking/slab? Or is someone else involved in the design of it?

 

[OHIOMatt]

I read the article and am not clear if this is a “smoking gun” or not. Based on the photos, it appears that the decking was shored to reduced the span until the concrete cured.

I personally would have to do quite a bit of study to span a deck 26’.

I wish we could see the actual correspondence. The deck supplier is reputable. If they notified me of a question of my design, I would certainly listen.

 

[Said the Sky]

how can these drawings even get into construction is my question

 

[NOLAscience]

Skimming the front-page article with my morning coffee (in my real "paper" newspaper), the reasons stated by Zehner for the failure echo what I said when I calculated the loads on the beams supporting the 16th floor.

https://www.nola.com/news/courts/article_016a6c2c-2bb5-11ec-a414-b337c4e337bd.html

Let me know if you guys can't read this, and I will upload the text. This is important to the engineering community.

I haven't read this one yet:

https://www.nola.com/news/courts/article_792be384-2bac-11ec-8461-bf6fab0d5eb1.html

 

[HTURKAK]

https://www.nola.com/news/courts/article_016a6c2c-...[/URL]

Let me know if you guys can't read this, and I will upload the text. This is important to the engineering community.

I haven't read this one yet:

https://www.nola.com/news/courts/article_792be384-...

]

I could not reach to the documents.. Will you please upload the texts ?..

 

[NOLAscience]

In the interest of education, click on this link for the nola.com article, "Engineer...overstressed steel".

 

[NOLAscience]

Here is the second nola.com article, "Grand jury to consider charges...".

 

[OHIOMatt]

Thanks NOLA! I was starting to think that this whole thing was going to disappear.

 

[Demented]

Ty for the pdf

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[HTURKAK]

Thanks NOLAscience (Structural)..I looked to the documents which you have uploaded..

As far as i understand, the structural designer is a CAN'TSTRUCT structural engineer and the contactor is CAN'TCONSTRUCT contractor..

Now , it is more clear ( for me) , why the others called our predecessors CIVIL ENGINEER !!!..

 

[Rabbit12]

Looks like Heaslip started a "new" engineering company.

https://www.axisengr.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jheaslip/

He's also CFO at some company called Hydrocarbon Engineering.

 

[dauwerda]

New footage of the entire collapse was released at the end of September.
The news release can be found here:

https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/...fety/289-4c108110-e984-41bb-85f7-b4d86e323319

or just the video on youtube, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG8kE60xg6Q

According to this recent article on the failure, the developer had no issue throwing their engineer under the bus:

The developers released a statement Tuesday morning on the two-year anniversary of the collapse:

"Today, the owner of the 1031 Canal project joins many others in remembering those who were victims of the tragedy which occurred two years ago, as well as remaining mindful of their families. In the months ahead, ownership looks forward to the release of the remaining OSHA investigation results which may potentially bring some closure to all those affected by this incident.

On this anniversary it should also be recalled that, after thorough investigative efforts, OSHA specifically did not implicate the owner in any way, but instead cited Heaslip Engineering and HUB Steel for multiple structural failures related to beams, columns and connections. These professionals were trusted by the owner to determine the means and methods to safely construct the building."

 

[MacGyverS2000]

the developer had no issue throwing their engineer under the bus

If I was driving a vehicle that blew a tire and killed people because the tire was poorly engineered and constructed, you better believe I'm going to point out that the engineering and manufacturing was to blame, not my driving.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[OHIOMatt]

First off, I hate the phrase "thrown under the bus". Secondly, based upon everything that I have seen and read on this collapse, the engineer did plenty to earn his position in proximity to moving busses. Hopefully we are nearing a point where we see some resolutions soon. It sounds like indictments are forthcoming. If this does go to trial, I hope that it is televised.

 

[phamENG]

I get that the engineer earned his position and the courts will likely prove that out - but the owner's statement is tactless. Leave it at "we're so sorry this happened and we hope this brings closure." Throwing in a "by the way - it wasn't us!" just makes you look like an ass. No doubt a lawyer advised the statement to prevent accepting any liability by "apologizing."

 

[EZBuilding]

"Praveen Kailas and his brother Naveen are no longer partners in the development, known as 1031 Canal Development LLC. It’s a partnership between Mohan Kailas; Denzel Clark, president of the prime contractor on the project, Citadel Builders; and Todd Trosclair of All-Star Electric."

So one of the owners of the project was the general contractor, but somehow by creating a LLC there is no assumed increased level of responsibility for the LLC entity? If the EOR is found to have under-designed the structure, he should be help responsible for such action. Likewise, the owner of the development should be help to a higher standard than that of "I'm just a dumb owner". Their role in the project inclusive of their required project schedule, changes made during design, quality assurance and phasing should be judged against the standard of care of other developers in the area. High end commercial developers are highly sophisticated and play a massive role in the end product of a building, but often run away with the largest share of profits without any of the liability.

 

[dauwerda]

If I was driving a vehicle that blew a tire and killed people because the tire was poorly engineered and constructed, you better believe I'm going to point out that the engineering and manufacturing was to blame, not my driving.

And the tire manufacturer would probably claim that it wasn't the engineering or the construction of the tire that was the issue, rather that you didn't properly maintain it and you should have had your vehicle aligned properly and your tire wouldn't have worn unevenly causing it to blow.
And neither yours or the tire manufacturers statements would do anything to bring the people that were killed back. And you would probably still feel terrible about it happening (even if it was faulty tires) because you were directly involved and the owner of tire company wouldn't even begin to understand that.

First off, I hate the phrase "thrown under the bus"

I'm curious why you hate the phrase?
My using the phrase here (or in any other situation) is not meant to indemnify the engineer (person now "under the bus") for any wrong doing. It is simply to point out that they will be getting hit by the proverbial bus anyway. However, they won't be the only one getting hit and they don't need any help getting there.

Our society is way to worried about placing blame and pointing fingers. It is unfortunate. At the end of the day, there will be plenty of blame to go all the way around. Pointing fingers to try to indemnify yourself is not helpful and as phamENG said, it just makes you look like an ass. If our initial focus was to try to help in any way we can and make things better and learn rather than make sure no thinks it was our fault (whether it was or wasn't) we would be in a much better world.

As an owner (of anything) you have an inherent responsibility that extends both to, and for those you hire to do work for you, even if that responsibility is simply to be a decent human being. Three people died working on the project, and the owner was more concerned about making sure everyone knew it wasn't (directly) their fault, rather than simply sharing in remembrance of the tragedy.

 

[waross]

Didn't the Firestone 500 fiasco kick back on Firestone?
As i remember the tire was designed as a low end, low performance, economy tire and then marketed as a top end high performance tire.
I am sure that Firestone made all sorts of self serving claims that the court rejected.

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Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!