Seems ridiculous, but who knows?
Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet
Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals
Has anyone had a serious look at this: Burning saline to generate heat
- Thread starter tinfoil
- Start date
It slices and dices, cures cancer, solves the world energy problems, travels through time, and picks winning lottery numbers...and if you buy now we'll throw in a set of steak knives. How much do you think this is worth.... For the next 20 minutes you can have this wonderful device for not $1 million, not $100,000....only 3 easy payments of $39.95.
STYMIEDPIPER
Mechanical
maybe he needs to test the water in his canal to see what is in it--maybe there is some unique chemical leaking into the canal that he is not aware of!!
Hi,
Einstein gave the equation e=mc2, that theoretically means that you can get huge energy out of small matter. As everyone here I am also skeptical, however did any one notice magic of falling Apple, or splashing water before Newton and Archmedes?
Einstein gave the equation e=mc2, that theoretically means that you can get huge energy out of small matter. As everyone here I am also skeptical, however did any one notice magic of falling Apple, or splashing water before Newton and Archmedes?
Didn't we debunk this quack earlier; maybe the thread got deleted?
Anyway, the following is wrong:
"Kanzius said the flame created from his machine reaches a temperature of around 3,000 degrees Farenheit [sic]. He said a chemist told him that the immense heat created from the machine breaks down the hydrogen-oxygen bond in the water, igniting the hydrogen."
An oxygen-hydrogen flame can reach a temperature of 2900 K* (4760 °F), so
1) water won't break down (significantly) at a measly 3000 °F, and
2) if it did, the heat required would be equal to that from combustion of the hydrogen & oxygen created. I.e., no gain.
*
Anyway, the following is wrong:
"Kanzius said the flame created from his machine reaches a temperature of around 3,000 degrees Farenheit [sic]. He said a chemist told him that the immense heat created from the machine breaks down the hydrogen-oxygen bond in the water, igniting the hydrogen."
An oxygen-hydrogen flame can reach a temperature of 2900 K* (4760 °F), so
1) water won't break down (significantly) at a measly 3000 °F, and
2) if it did, the heat required would be equal to that from combustion of the hydrogen & oxygen created. I.e., no gain.
*
Hi All, Interesting reading:Researchers at Purdue University have further developed a technology that could represent a pollution-free energy source. The technology produces hydrogen by adding water to an alloy of aluminum and gallium
schwarz,
It's better to start a new thread (especially, don't append upon a nonsensical burning of saltwater thread!).
Re the Purdue idea, which briefly uses gallium to enhance the corrosion of aluminum:
Al + 3 H[sub]2[/sub]O = Al(OH)[sub]3[/sub] + 3/2 H[sub]2[/sub](gas)
Metal finishers (anodizers, platers, extruders) have long used the etching reaction
2 Al + 2 NaOH --> 2 NaAlO[sub]2[/sub] + H[sub]2[/sub](gas)
This reaction was used during World War I by the US Army to generate H[sub]2[/sub] in the field for spotter balloons. The Iraqi Army in early 2001 had almost identical trailers for H[sub]2[/sub] generation (mis-identified as bio-weapons labs).
Eco-Tec has a caustic soda (NaOH) recovery unit which recovers the NaOH for further use, and hydrated alumina which goes to a primary aluminum producers for Al recovery. It uses the well-known Bayer process (a hydrolysis reaction):
2 NaAlO[sub]2[/sub] + 4H[sub]2[/sub]O --> 2 NaOH + Al[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]3[/sub][sup].[/sup]3H[sub]2[/sub]O
Combining the latter 2 reactions and simplifying,
2 Al + 4H[sub]2[/sub]O --> Al[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]3[/sub][sup].[/sup]3H[sub]2[/sub]O + H[sub]2[/sub](gas)
Not as much hydrogen per aluminum, but it doesn't require gallium (which is of limited supply, with price being driven up by semiconductor mfrs.).
It's better to start a new thread (especially, don't append upon a nonsensical burning of saltwater thread!).
Re the Purdue idea, which briefly uses gallium to enhance the corrosion of aluminum:
Al + 3 H[sub]2[/sub]O = Al(OH)[sub]3[/sub] + 3/2 H[sub]2[/sub](gas)
Metal finishers (anodizers, platers, extruders) have long used the etching reaction
2 Al + 2 NaOH --> 2 NaAlO[sub]2[/sub] + H[sub]2[/sub](gas)
This reaction was used during World War I by the US Army to generate H[sub]2[/sub] in the field for spotter balloons. The Iraqi Army in early 2001 had almost identical trailers for H[sub]2[/sub] generation (mis-identified as bio-weapons labs).
Eco-Tec has a caustic soda (NaOH) recovery unit which recovers the NaOH for further use, and hydrated alumina which goes to a primary aluminum producers for Al recovery. It uses the well-known Bayer process (a hydrolysis reaction):
2 NaAlO[sub]2[/sub] + 4H[sub]2[/sub]O --> 2 NaOH + Al[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]3[/sub][sup].[/sup]3H[sub]2[/sub]O
Combining the latter 2 reactions and simplifying,
2 Al + 4H[sub]2[/sub]O --> Al[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]3[/sub][sup].[/sup]3H[sub]2[/sub]O + H[sub]2[/sub](gas)
Not as much hydrogen per aluminum, but it doesn't require gallium (which is of limited supply, with price being driven up by semiconductor mfrs.).
To kenvlach, just for the sake of balancing out the oxygen in the equations, the second one should be:
2 Al + 2 NaOH + 2 H[sub]2[/sub]O => 2 NaAlO[sub]2[/sub] + 3 H[sub]2[/sub]
The last one would become:
2 Al + 6 H[sub]2[/sub]O => Al[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]3[/sub].3H[sub]2[/sub]O + 3 H[sub]2[/sub]
With the same amount of hydrogen per aluminum as in the Purdue idea. Agree ?
![[smile]](/data/assets/smilies/smile.gif "[smile] [smile]")
Thanks, 25362. I did that in the wee hours of the morning. Looks 3x better!
dcasto, aluminum is a good fuel in terms of high heat of combustion/weight; that's why it's used in solid fuel rockets. However, can't use directly in an IC engine due to alumina combustion product. So, it's good that people are looking at closed-loop alternatives. However, the Purdue Univ. story has a big hole in it:
"Enough aluminum exists in the United States to produce 100 trillion kilowatt hours of energy. That's enough energy to meet all the U.S. electric needs for 35 years."
Overlooks the fact that that is merely recovering the enormous amount of electricity used in producing the aluminum from its oxide. So, no net gain. But, it's easier to stockpile aluminum than hydrogen or other forms of electricity or thermal energy.
dcasto, aluminum is a good fuel in terms of high heat of combustion/weight; that's why it's used in solid fuel rockets. However, can't use directly in an IC engine due to alumina combustion product. So, it's good that people are looking at closed-loop alternatives. However, the Purdue Univ. story has a big hole in it:
"Enough aluminum exists in the United States to produce 100 trillion kilowatt hours of energy. That's enough energy to meet all the U.S. electric needs for 35 years."
Overlooks the fact that that is merely recovering the enormous amount of electricity used in producing the aluminum from its oxide. So, no net gain. But, it's easier to stockpile aluminum than hydrogen or other forms of electricity or thermal energy.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question