Has EcoSqueeze corrupted your files? 3

[TheTick]

I asked this question in another thread, but I thought this merited its own subject line...

I have used EcoSqueeze for over a year on thousands of SW files with no problems. There are some who claim that EcoSqueeze can corrupt SW files, but I have not heard one firsthand account of this.

Is there anyone out there who has had a file corrupted by EcoSqueeze? Remember, I am looking for firsthand accounts, where you "squeezed" a file and then it failed to open the very next time.

Due to illness, the part of The Tick will be played by... The Tick.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

 

[macPT]

I use Unfrag for some years, which as proven to be an efective and safe file compressor. But never heard complaints about EcoSqueeze.

Regards

 

[manxJim]

I have bin using EcoSqueeze for a number of yeas and never hade a problem with it corrupting files
Don’t use it very often and only on big files

 

[SAWH]

No, never

I have even "squeezed" our hole modelarchive. I know its not what we are supposed to do but efter using the program for a very long time and never encountered any problems I felt safe about it.

Regards /Sam

 

[SBaugh]

Yes SW recommends no one use it. I personally don't have a problem with but...

I asked the question "what can cause a file to corrupt?" to SW. Their reply was Files can corrupt during a save. If the Save is interupted while it's in process this can cause data loss or data corruption.

1) If your saving over a network, the network traffic can cause a file to corrupt.

2) If your saving your file locally or over a network and in the middle of the save your computer Crashes.

3) If your saving your file locally or over a network and in the middle of the save a power outage occurs.

4) If your saving your file locally or over a network and the save ends. Right after that SW crashes. That doesn't mean that SW wasn't crashing while the file was saving.

So if those are some of the reasons why SW can cause a corrupt file. Think of this... If you run a separate program (not made by SW) that opens up a file and removes data from within the file to make it smaller. Then resaves the file. What is keeping that program from not corrupting it as well or maybe mixing up some or enough data, that it might eventaully cause SW to corrupt the file in the first place? Has anyone considered that?

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP to me

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

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[ctopher]

I have not had the problem. Tick, are you going to continue using Ecosqueeze? Or have you found one better?

 

[TheTick]

I'm using it. I plan to keep using it.

I'm trying to debunk what I consider to be an alarmist "urban legend".

 

[ctopher]

me too. I have used it on hundreds of SW files, no problems at all.

 

[RawheadRex]

I started using the tool a few years back based largely on advice I read hear in this forum. After thousands of files I can honestly say that I've not run into any problem that I would attribute to ECOSqueeze. Can it happen? Yeah, I suppose but that doesn't deter me from using it.

Regards,


Chris Gervais
Sr. Mechanical Designer
Lytron Corp.

 

[SBaugh]

SW did have a press release somewhere at their site about a year and half ago on, not using any such programs taht clean out the data in them. (I have been unable to find at this time.) But if there were to be a file corruption, the file will not be salvageable.

Also, even though there is a decrease in file size, there is an increase in time upon opening the file. This is because that data that these programs got rid of actually needs to be rebuilt before the file can be used. So there is really no benefit at all to using these, at best the effects of these programs are temporary.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

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[SAWH]

Scott, do you mean that if you do a Save as (Which does basically the same as Ecosqueeze)the file is going to take longer time to open the first time??

Regards,

Sam

 

[macPT]

SBaugh

The reasons you pointed in your early post,for file corruption, are valid for any other application and are not only for file compressors.

In your last observation you it the target. The risk of corrupting files is not in an interrupted save (as it can occour with any other software) but in mix data that can make the file unraedable by SW. But how many millions of compressing have we already done and howmany corruptions have we found? I think that the probability of corruption is so low that we can "safely" use file compressors.

At least I alredy have files corrupted by SW (during a SW crash), by hardware and none by Unfrag.

But I recomend to backup before compression and test the files before cleaning the backup.

I also recomend that you never do a "CUT/PASTE" over the network (with any files). Do a "COPY/PASTE" and after check a successful copy delete the original files.

Regards

 

[SBaugh]

Scott, do you mean that if you do a Save as (Which does basically the same as Ecosqueeze)the file is going to take longer time to open the first time??

Regards,

Sam

No that means that the Unfrag and EcoSqueeze removes data from the file that will cause the file to be rebuilt upon the reopening of the file.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The risk of corrupting files is not in an interrupted save (as it can occour with any other software) but in mix data that can make the file unraedable by SW.

So you are disagreeing that an interrupted save will not cause files to corrupt in SW? If so, your wrong. I just had a customer save his file, then crash and it corrupted his file beyond repair. I have personally had files corrupt due to Power outages, and saving over a network. These types of corruptions have been noted from SW.

But how many millions of compressing have we already done and howmany corruptions have we found? I think that the probability of corruption is so low that we can "safely" use file compressors.

That's true! I have only talked to one person in my life that has came to me and explained that using Unfrag caused his files to become corrupted and there was nothing SW could do with them. So it is a risk IMO.

Everybody uses it, and I can't lie... I have used both unfrag and EcoSqueeze. I don't much anymore. Heck I don't have either installed. If I want a smaller file I export it out as a parasolid and open it back up. Then I save it with a new name. I still have my old file (which is backed up) incase I need to make a change to the file. I turned a 36 MB part file into a 1 MB file. Doing it like this, I saved my assembly a ton of load time.

Remember SW files continue to grow. So you will always have to run these utilities on these files. By me exporting it, I don't have to worry about the size anymore. As for changes... It's not that hard to add 3 mates in my assembly if the part needs changed. If the Replace component doesn't work right the first time.

But I recomend to backup before compression and test the files before cleaning the backup.

I also recomend that you never do a "CUT/PASTE" over the network (with any files). Do a "COPY/PASTE" and after check a successful copy delete the original files.

Absolutely!! ALWAYS do a backup before you do anything that could cause an issue. That should be common knowledge for any and all SW users... heck any CAD user should be backing up his files.

Indeed!! ALWAYS do a Copy/Paste and never a Cut/Paste. If something happens (like accidentally Copy instead of Paste.) then you might loss all your data.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

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[macPT]

SBaugh

I have expressed myself badly. I don't mean that the interrupted save dosen't corrupt a file. It will most certainly corrupt, so I agree with you in this matter! What I mean is that it's not fair to point it as an issue of Unfrag or EcoSqueeze, as it can happen with any other software, even with SW. The big issue that we must look for is the mixed or loss of data, making the file unreadable by SW.

Regards

 

[SBaugh]

I agree and that this can happen with any Software. As well as Unfrag or EcoSqueeze.

I'm not telling anyone not to use it. I just want people to be aware that there may be dangers in using them. And if they are uing it and they become the one unlucky person that does get bit by it. SW wil not and cannot repair the files once that occurs. If the file gets corrupted by SW. There is about 70% or so chance that SW can repair the file, but only if SW is at fault.

I'm not saying the just Unfrag and Ecosqueeze will cause this... just saying your chances become higher using it because your using a third party software to make your files smaller. SW needs to make their own so this subject will die out. I think this should be a ER. But still as I mentioned above, it's at best temporary because once you open and save the file again. The file size increases back too or more than what it was before you ran the utility.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

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[meintsi]

Let's do a little more homework on file compression.

You seem to be wanting to compare apples to oranges to pears. Lossy compression schemes, ie. file compression of a jpeg photo, does actually remove data that is permanently lost. But the "lossless" file compression does not remove data from these files. It simply replaces a long string of data with a shorter one, or in most cases, a single bit.

Most programming languages are also very redundant. They use a relatively small set of commands, which, more often than not, follow each other in a set pattern. It is in this area where these file compression systems save the greatest number of bytes. But if it were using this kind of true file compreesion, the native format would be changed.

This is also the basis used for the new "lossless" audio codecs which will probally become the norm for all computer audio in the very near future.

SolidWorks, like any other program, would become even more bloated and slow, if every time data is rewritten to a file, if it would have to compact all the bits of information to the smallest possible size. MS even recognizes this as it includes a disk defragmenter with its operating system. This type of operation, which is also called file compression, simply takes all the bits, like books scattered on a book shelf, and pushes them all together. This is essentially what happens when a "SaveAs" operation is done.

Then all that's left, and sometimes the biggest culprit, is the metadata generated by the program itself. Many third-party companies produce the tools required to remove this inforamtion for every program on the martket. SolidWorks will never endorse and of these because it would be admitting that someone else out there has a pretty good handle on the program code. I wouldn't be surprised if the makers of EcoSqueeze or UnFrag actually worked for SW in some way or the other at one time.

A well written compression algorithm has no more chance of corrupting a SolidWorks file than SoildWorks does itself. There could be a network failure or computer glitch at any time, so any program which would happen to be running at the time would be affected. It just so happens that the true reason that file becomes corrupted is usually never actually determined, because the user may never notice a network or OS hiccup. They just look at the end result and blame the program.



Remember...
"If you don't use your head,
your going to have to use your feet."

 

[TheTick]

Nice lively debate. I figured this would happen.

Still... I ain't got what I'm after: a firsthand account of a file corrupted by EcoSqueeze.

No news is good news.

 

[SBaugh]

There is a discussion right now at comp.cad.solidworks about Ecosqueeze. Subject is "SolidWorks File Bloat, EcoSqueeze, and PDM"

This is pasted from someone that replied to the thread there:

Has anyone seen where EcoSqueeze removes Sharing and Security rights on a shared folder on a local machine? It has happened to us several times, and if I remember correctly the shares and security appear to be there, but you have to recreate them to allow others to share the directory. I even have one machine that we have to make a copy of the entire directory after running EcoSqueeze to allow others to access it.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

If you are in the SW Forum Check out the FAQ section

To make the Best of Eng-Tips Forums FAQ731-376

 

[mbdraft]

First hand response. Yes ran EcoSqueeze from a local machine over the network to our vault. Corrupted about 30 files out of 10,000. To solve that problem we ran EcoSqueeze locally to the server and all was fine. Good thing I always backed up a hard copy on DVD every Friday as we only found the corrupted files 3 months later.

Matthew A. Bush
CSWP

 

[Standing]

TheTick,
First hand response. No, EcoSqueeze has not corrupted any of our files. We do not use it that much.

One of our drafters came to me with a drawing that would not open out of the PDM. SolidWorks crashed for him and me. He had no copies anywhere else. I put the model and drawing from the PDM vault on my local drive without opening the drawing. I ran EcoSqueeze on the local directory with just the model and drawing in it. After that SolidWorks opened the drawing just fine.
Saved him 20 minutes of work to recreate the drawing.

My vote is EcoSqueeze removed a corruption.


Bradley