Health Insurance 44

[tbonebanjo]

I was just wondering how many companies still have good insurance and how many have gone the way of Obamacare. I am in a small MEP firm in Maryland. Our health insurance just changed, our premiums went up and our coverage went way down. I have maximum out of pocket expenses of $12,500 per year, $4000 deductable per person, tnen start the copay schedules. Should I start looking for other employment or are all companies being affected this way?

 

[IRstuff]

There's been a lot of interest in various circles in determining the "true" cost of things like electricity, integrated circuits, etc. Likewise, alcohol has a lot of costs to society: broken homes, lost days at work, liver illness, etc. It would seem plausible that one could assign an actuarial cost to alcohol that could be applied like an insurance.

At the risk of being labeled a "nannyism" advocate, I could imagine doing adders and subtractors to the prices of foods to account for downsides and upsides, with the eventual goal of demonstrating that the true cost of the cheap sugary and starchy drinks and snacks belie their retail prices, and that vegetables and fruits would get priced more competitively, based on their benefits.

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[GHartmann]

Wow from health care to the FOOD POLICE. In an engineering forum!

I was the insurers dream. Company paid insurance, rarely go to doctor. In relatively good health (well into 50's). As far as individuals going into the marketplace and obtaining competitive insurance as opposed to a group policy that's just not going to happen. Unfortunately, as an employee you have no control whether your employer has a good or bad plan.

I was blessed to have a HR lady who worked extremely hard to negotiate the best coverage possible on an annual or two-year basis. It did mean switching providers from time (which did give some heartache when suddenly your primary care provider was no longer in the covered network). My own experience is therefore not against employer paid plans.

I am now in the free market place and what I am seeing is dreadful. $600 per month with $5000 deductible. I am better off without a plan and risking I won't spend more than $5000 (I suppose that's one hospital stay). There are plans with lower deductibles, but with higher monthly costs. It's hard to predict what will happen.

As far as the uninsured, I do believe there is some role for subsidies or low cost care to be provided for those that qualify. It ultimately results in an improved society (IMHO).

I am near that point now, being recently unemployed, unable to afford COBRA or any other health care. Yet somehow BIG BROTHER says I must have it. Just how? Unless it's GIVEN to me.

I don't really believe the US Government is going to deliver healthcare to me efficiently (too much bureaucracy, sloth, and graft). Not that I believe that the current system is very efficient or cost effective either (too profit driven).

One example I can provide is that the radiology departments act as their own revenue generating centers in the hospital. How often have you got a bill from them stating your insurance carrier hasn't paid? Thus your Doctor no longer truly reads your X-ray.

Well that's enough of my 2 cents.

 

[IRstuff]

"I am better off without a plan and risking I won't spend more than $5000 (I suppose that's one hospital stay). "

Dream on, %5k was ONE DAY in intensive care, the last time that happened.

"I don't really believe the US Government is going to deliver healthcare to me efficiently (too much bureaucracy, sloth, and graft). Not that I believe that the current system is very efficient or cost effective either (too profit driven)."

Luckily, we're doing neither, or rather, we're doing both

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[JohnRBaker]

It would seem plausible that one could assign an actuarial cost to alcohol that could be applied like an insurance.

Have you ever been to a Scandinavian country likr Sweden or Denmark? If you're ever there, try buying a beer, or better yet, a bottle of liquor, and you'll experience first hand what it's like to live where they 'tax' your vices, at least the ones which tend to place an undo burden on their national health care system.

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[IRstuff]

No, I have not. Assuming that the tax is consistent with the total cost of the drink, then it sounds like they got that part right. Since you recognize that that's a plausible situation, what' the problem? The alternative is that you or your heir are contractually obligated to let you consume no medical or other care without paying full price, and that when live transplants are available, you are ineligible. Would you rather they do it that way?

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[beej67]

It would seem plausible that one could assign an actuarial cost to alcohol that could be applied like an insurance.

I quite like that idea, actually. It would be a lot more grounded in realism than carbon taxes.

The thing to really tax, though, is sugar.

If all of Obamacare was funded out of a national sugar tax, and food stamps were instead replaced with "all you can eat free vegetables," this country would undergo a drastic change for the better, health wise. The corporate food lobbyists would never let that happen though.

All sorts of funny things show up when you start applying actual actuarial principles to health care. For instance, tobacco use is a net positive, because it kills people off before they get old and draw too much social security. Alcohol might be similar.

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[IRstuff]

The problem is that in both cases, there are those that will suck up huge amounts of medical resources before they kick the bucket. Just consider a single DUI causing semi-permanent disability to a victim, or even the perp.

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[glass99]

Alcohol kills a crazy number of Americans every year, frequently in really tragic ways. I would be interested to see the increment in health care costs caused by alcohol related illness. It probably exceeds the whole turnover of Budweiser, Coors, and Miller. Manufacturing, sales, and distribution costs are the smallest component of the true cost of alcohol.

-> It should not be affordable to get drunk every night. Buying a can of beer for $1 is perverse, it should be $10/can. Cigarettes are about $12/pack in the bodega downstairs from my office, which is still about half what it should be.

 

[cranky108]

With that logic, I expect to see bootlegers speeding down the highway, and I wonder how many people that will hurt?

One of the big problems with any of this high tax stuff, is what if the studies are wrong. What if a little wine is actually good for you? Who decides what is taxed and what is not, or what is good for you and what is not. Do you trust that person or group to be honest, and not payed off?

If you want to fix a disfunctional food consumption problem, then teach it in the schools.

Another option is make food that is good for you, to taste good to you.

 

[KENAT]

Plus of course alcohol ties into the health care debate in other ways.

There is a correlation between mental illness and problem drinking (and other addiction issues) but the causation is not necessarily as simple as 'drinking/using drugs fried their brain'.

In many cases the substance abuse may be a form of self medication for pre existing mental illness - at least according to many psych types.

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[IRstuff]

"If you want to fix a disfunctional food consumption problem, then teach it in the schools."

How is that supposed to "fix a disfunctional food consumption," given that much of today's problems in nutrition can be squarely placed on the food pyramid that was taught in schools and media for 40+ yrs. Additionally, the same question of "who do you trust?" exists. The "war on fat" can now be traced to a certain zealot who cherry-picked his data and sold a bill of goods to the country that reverberates even now.

"Another option is make food that is good for you, to taste good to you. "

The only way to pay for that is to tax the bad stuff... But, seriously, the reason the bad stuff tastes good was the fat and salt and all that bad stuff. Put enough cheese and salt, even tomatoes might taste good. Of course, we've successfully removed 90% of the tomato's taste to ensure that we don't have go to the market every day to avoid spoilage and shipping damage. Almost everything that was tasty that we buy in the produce section has been bred into dull, lifeless, cardboard taste.

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[KENAT]

Another problem with many health studies is that they are strong on the correlation and weak on the causation.

Hence every few years a food that was meant to be 'bad' for you is now 'good' for you and vice versa.

The human body is an incredibly complex system, that varies somewhat amongst the population, in a variable environment... so to my mind to any claim that tweaking one input slightly can be expected to have a significant impact on overall health of everyone is worth of scrutiny.

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[SomptingGuy]

Good food is hard to define in an objective way. Our species has evolved favouring foods that provide easy and quick energy. Very good for feeding the evolution machine. Not so good (so it would seem) at keeping the gene-carrying individuals running after their work is done.

- Steve

 

[glass99]

It is true that reasonable people can disagree about things like how many eggs a day you should eat, so we should be humble about our regulation of it, but no reasonable person thinks that soda or beer is good for you.

Part of the perversion in the US are the farm subsidies for corn growers. It artificially reduces the price of corn syrup.

 

[KENAT]

"no reasonable person thinks that soda or beer is good for you"

Then I am unreasonable, and apparently so are at least some scientific researchers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/beer-facts_n_4151575.html

http://news.health.com/2014/09/23/health-benefits-of-beer/

http://www.eatright.org/Public/content.aspx?id=6442463947

http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/

Then again, as we don't trust them about the climate should we trust them about bear?

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[KENAT]

Oh, and I nearly forgot.

Case closed.

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[glass99]

Kenat: perhaps if you start drinking shandies you can get all your empty calories in one neat package

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shandy

 

[KENAT]

Shandy, larger top whatever.

Make mine a turbo shandy (the version with alcho lemonade not those smirnoff ice abominations)

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[IRstuff]

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an occasional soda or beer. Life would be totally boring and they might as well kill me now, if that's the end result. "Moderation in all things," should be the motto. Too much of anything is bad, regardless, just like the old joke about too much water being bad for you. Too much oxygen, which is vital, is bad for you. Too much salt, etc.

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[TenPenny]

"It is true that reasonable people can disagree about things like how many eggs a day you should eat, so we should be humble about our regulation of it, but no reasonable person thinks that soda or beer is good for you."

That's certainly one way to make your credibility approach zero.