Help for the metallugically impaired 2

[Shaman2]

Does anyone know of a good online site for identifying metals by the XRF analysis?
My background is in analytical and instrumental chemistry. However due to the retirement of a collegue I have been assigned the task of using the portable XRF for identifying materials that maintenance and other departments have and are unsure of. Usually this is quete easy as you put the analyser on the material for a few minutes and it pops up with the analysis and identifies it as inconel or 316 SS etc. However if the composition is not programmed into it's memory it only give the analysis.
The internal client then looks at me and says "Well, what is it?". I then get the chance to stand there looking dumb and say, "I dunno". Sometimes I am pretty sure, since perhaps only one of the metals is a % or so off the mark for 316 or something, but not being expert in the field I can only give a qualitative "yeah, it's pretty close to 316".
I would like to be of more help to these guys but need a resource to help me do so.
I would appreciate any helpful suggestions you have.

Thanks
Edd

 

[arunmrao]

You can start with ASM Metals Handbook both the volumes for ferrous and nonferrous metals.

" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke

 

[unclesyd]

We had a very good guide from Texas Nuclear on how to interpret the readings. These instruments require a general knowledge of families of materials as stated above.

You will have to have a operating manual for your instrument to use all it' features and to use it properly.

 

[Shaman2]

Thanks, but I am just finding out how metallurgacally impaired I really am!
I went to a web site referred to me by a friend,

http://www.matweb.com/search/SearchComp.asp

and put in this mornings readings, Fe 98 - 99%, Mn 0 - 2% for a search. It returned 3 pages of possibilities at 200 per page. How would I ever know which one was right?

 

[arunmrao]

Shaman 2,I know you are being too modest. Easy way would be to list out the commonly used materials in your facility. Whether they are Fe base, Ni base, Al base, or Cu base. On a first instance this will make your work simpler. You can then get into details for each of them from the Metals Handbook,which would read out the chemical and mechanical properties..

Realistically you may not have 98% Fe and 2% Mn alloy. You might also have some Si, S, P, and trace elements like Ni,Mo, Cu, Cr etc.

" All that is necessary for triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Edmund Burke

 

[EdStainless]

Well, in your example it is a plain carbon steel (I presume no additions of Cr, Cu, Mo or such). In that case you would turn to your client and say, "cut a sample and we will have a lab pull a tensile and run carbon and boron in the lab and then I can tell you what you forgot to mark it as". There are hundreds of grades of plain carbon steels that you won't sort out with portable XRF.
If you are dealing with higher alloy materials and it will not make a match try getting the surface flatter and smoother (better finish), and then run and extended count analysis to get higher precision.

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http://www.trent-tube.com/contact/Tech_Assist.cfm

 

[weldtek]

Another possibility is to have the manufacturer of the instrument assist you in programming your instrument with the common grades of material you are inspecting.

 

[yates]

After considerable experience in using hand-held XRF mahines to distinguish between alloys used in our plant (Inconel 718, Waspaloy, multiphase alloys, titanium alloys, steels, CRES(A286) 15-5PH, 17-4PH, 13-8Mo) I can state the following :
- The functionning principle of XRF machines precludes detection of materials below Titanium in the periodic table.Therefore XRF machines do not distinguish between different steels which have differing C, Mn, Si, S, P contents
- We have never been able to distinguish between Inco 718 and Waspaloy.
-We cannot distinguish between Ti6-4 and Ti 6-6-2Sn
-We obviously cannot distinguish between stainless (eg 304) and the low carbon version of same.

These machines were developed for scrap metal merchants who need to distinguish between Aluminum, copper-base, stainless etc. They cannot replace spectroscopy.