help from superiors (or the lack of) 2

[bjb]

I am wondering how many engineers at the beginning to middle stages of their careers actually receive effective help from their superiors.

I have 10 years of experience in structural engineering, and my boss is about the same age as me, but has a more years of experience in structures. Yet, he is unable to offer helpful advise of a technical nature, the usual reply being "do what you think is best". Fortunately, before woring at my current firm I worked for someone very knowledgeable who taught me lots, and helped me to be able to work independently to try to solve problems. However, he was always there if I needed help.

Now that is not the case, and I feel like a one-man show, and am very fustrated that my superior is unable to offer technical guidance to me. This website is extremely helpful to me, but is not a substitute to working under experienced and knowledgeable engineers. My boss seems happy to just "manage" things, and doesn't seem to have the ability to design anymore. He is also unwilling to rock the boat to fight for our group, as we are part of a mult-disciplinary firm that is dominated by civil engineers. I do have plans to look elsewhere, I am just wondering if my plight is shared by many others.

 

[bjb]

My answer IRstuff, is that I always take the time to help those with less experience than I have. I have 10 years, not 27 as you do. If you have a worker with 10 years experience, and occaisionally this person asks you a question, how do YOU handle it? I'm not talking about a guy with 10 years asking you how to design a simple span beam or calculate the compressive strength of a column. What I'm talking about is when an unusual situation comes across my desk, and I want someone elses opinion on my approach, or having roughed out a solution, ask them how they would handle it. How on Earth does that equate to needing babying?

I'm in the consulting engineering business, and we get involved with a huge variety of different projects. I don't work for a manufacturer where we specialize in one kind of project. Each one of my designs is essentially a prototype that goes into construction without any testing beforehand to see if the engineering was really up to par. They just get built and put into service. Yes, there is some testing, but that is only part of the quality control program to keep the contractor's honest. Given the large numbers of people that inhabit my structures, if I have an occaisional question about something, you BET I expect the engineer who is my boss to be able to provide a response that is better than the typical "that what I pay you for", or "I don't know, do what you think is best"! Having said that, there are times when even the most experienced of us will not have the answer. I accept that, and I condem no one that basis. When that does happen, sure, I have to do whatever is necessary to get the answers. And that's exactly what I do. But to be given the above reponse practiaclly every time? I don't think so. My superior is expected to do some engineering, and not just "manage" me.

 

[IRstuff]

As senior engineer, part of my job description is to teach and train younger engineers.

However, I, and others, do not accept the premise that your manager, or mine, MUST provide technical direction. They are paying you, and me, the big bucks to do the jobs given. The last time my manager actually did any engineering was over 15 years ago. As a matter of fact, we rarely get sufficient specifications or direction and it's indeed expected for us to "fill in the blanks," and make the best judgement we can. That's the real engineering; everything else is number crunching.

As with others, I would rather have a bang-on manager than a good engineer trying to do both. My last organization had 200 engineers and one manager. I saw him twice a year, tops.

At 10 yrs, you are the subject matter expert. Many IPT leads run multidisciplinary teams and there is zero possibility for that lead to have even a vague engineering opinion about certain aspects of the design.

TTFN

 

[whyun]

You may get better responses than "do what you think is best" when you first come up with at least two alternatives and explain pros and cons for each and allow the boss to choose. Assuming the boss is the one stamping and signing the drawings, he will usually provide you with a thoughtful response.

As for training junior staff, they may come up with the wildest questions. Senior engineers may give them quick answers but in my experience, it is more effective in the long run to give them hints and lead them in the right direction which allows them to THINK. I also used to suggest they come up with at least two solutions before asking.

I agree with many that it is rare to find a technical guru who is also a great manager but there are plenty who are bad at both. I wouldn't press my luck at getting any useful technical solutions from the manager types.

 

[GregLocock]

At the grand old age of 45 I have had many supervisors and managers.

18-26 they taught me stuff

27,28 it was give and take, occasionally they could help, usually I had to explain it to them.

29-35 I was technical lead and would push my solution through

36,37 I moved to a new industry, one guy there knew a lot and taught me some acoustics, but mostly I figured the rest out for myself, and all the safety related stuff was on my head. My manager was a manager, not a technical resource.

38-45 moved back into auto - I make the decisions.

So I figure after 10 years experience in one area you should be capable of deciding how to solve the unknown.

Incidentally, how often do you decide that a new test procedure or some innovative test work is required? If you don't then you are cooking from recipes, or flying blind.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[HgTX]

My first boss was great. Both technical and professional support.

The next boss was brought in to be a manager, from another technical area. I have been the so-called "expert" ever since.

I have not had a technical go-to person since the middle of my second year on the job. I felt really deprived, but then a lot of people's very first job is to be the go-to person, so I guess I was just spoiled.

I've cultivated relationships with a lot of people who work at other places, and I contact them if I don't know the answer myself. Fortunately I'm in government and not industry so no one minds handing me free advice (and it's one of my reasons for staying in the public sector).

A lot of engineers are managers more than they are engineers. This is nothing new and nothing rare. It's nice to have someone to fall back on, but it's a luxury.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[zcp]

bjb,
I think I hear what you are saying now. You are frustrated (and somewhat surprised) that your manager is unable (or unwilling) to answer your techinical questions. You really would like to have someone to bounce ideas off of, especially in the world of consulting where there are no cookbook solutions.

If this is the case, then I was once EXACTLY where you are. It is a real shocker to come to the realization that there isn't anyone in the company who you can turn to help with a technical issue that you will be able to figure out, but would just like to be able to DISCUSS it intelligently with someone.

I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but I will tell you the path I ended up on. I slowly began to lose respect for my manager and began to feel isolated because of the lack of technical expertise around me. It ended up in a job change where I went from the most highly educated in my department, to the least. I took a job with technical gurus and Ph.Ds all around me. It was awesome to be able to go into long technical discussions with fellow engineers.

There is more to the story, but I'll stop there until you post again and let me know if I am on the right track.....

P.S. I got into engineering because there would never be a way to learn everything. I still pull out the books and study every chance I get.

ZCP

http://www.phoenix-engineer.com

 

[svanels]

So I think to be the boss of an engineering group, it makes sense that you should also be able to function as an engineer and be able to offer technical direction to the engineers under you

Maybe deep inside you feel that you should be the boss, and in your sub-conscious you are playing the "boss" role.