Help! Future Engineering Student Lost And Confused 4

[ewright33]

Here is my situation:

I am currently a soldier in the US Army, I am 21, and I want to be a mechanical engineer. My dad was a mechanic, but I have little to no technical experience. I get out of the army in a year, and am planning to go to Oklahoma to pursue my degree. However, I have a few issues:
1) I want to work while I am pursuing my degree, and I want to work in an area which relates to mechanical engineering. Anyone have any recommendations? Where to start, what to pursue? I have looked into being a machinist, but I am unsure whether or not it is a deviation from engineering.
2) Anyone have any information on apprenticeships and/or internships in Oklahoma for trade skill jobs? Is it something I should pursue?

I realize I sound like an idiot here, but I need some advice and a direction in which to go. I don't know whether to just work for a min wage job while in college and get my degree or get a technical skill first or what. I will have money to just pay for college and a house but I need to have a job when I get out, and other than job qualification for an unrelated job which I do in the army, I have very little on my resume. Please, anyone with any helpful tips or hints would be greatly appreciated! And the sooner the better. Thanks so much~

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Well, I would imagine you could ask to be a mechanic in the Army...But that is not really what a mechanical engineer does... although the training would be good for most of them!!!!

Check out your local community colleges and get with a counselor who can point you in the right direction. Might even give you a few tests to see if you "fit"

I hope your high school years were filled with math, physics, chemistry, etc. and you LIKED it - BECAUSE you will need it.

 

[graybeach]

You might want to look into taking courses in computer aided drafting. Depending on the job market in your area, you can get a fairly well paying job as a CAD drafter after just one or two courses. Try the power industry, or something in state government where, as a veteran, you may have a leg up. Once you are working, you can start taking university courses toward your engineering degree. Best wishes to you.

 

[TheTick]

I started my working life as a machinist and then as Navy nuc. Handy skills to have. Kept me employed through college.

w.r.t. Your resume: don't just put "Army, 4 years" on your experience. Surely you had specialized training and a few accomplishments to list, just like any other job. Accentuate anything that shows teamwork.

 

[IRstuff]

Neither "machinist" nor "mechanic" directly relate to "mechanical engineering." The former fabricates, or refabricates, what a mechanical engineer designs, and the latter fixes it when it breaks.

I suggest that you at least read the Wikipedia article on mechanical engineering to get you a better idea of what you're asking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_engineering

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[controlsdude]

If you have been out of school for awhile its best to start at community college, where your mistakes won't be that expensive. If you take this route make sure the classes can transfer to a 4 year college. Otherwise its a waste of your time.

I would try the CAD Operator route, you get experience in cad software which is mostly what mechanicals do most of the time. Take a few classes as suggested get a part time job doing this as you go to college.

There will be a point in the college career where its best to go full time. Because, the classes build on each other and taking them years apart can be a stretch on the mind when you have to recall previous material.

 

[cksh]

I would also say CAD training/career. You will probably need it at some point. I worked as a designer for most of my career and it really helped jumped start my career once I got my engineering degree.

A machinist is not a bad idea either. The ability to read prints, and understand manufacturing processes doesn't hurt. I work with quite a few engineers that started out as machinists before persuing their degrees. But I would still lean towards a career in CAD if you can do it.

 

[FeX32]

Like everyone else said. Don't confuse professions. Many engineers hate this.... particularly when when its those common misconceptions which in reality are light years apart.

I suggest to take some tests in math and science. And get a hold of a few 1st year engineering texts and see if you can understand the material after reading a chapter or 2.
This will ensure you don't have a hissy fit when you get in...

Also, no matter what anyone says here, make sure you do what you want. I highly recommend the field; we need more good domestic engineers ....
Good luck


Fe

 

[monkeydog]

I have found the good machinist's tend to think like engineers. They think, set-up, effect of establishing first cuts, cutting speed, effects of the material (tool and material). But, I am thinking of the type of machinist that works a mill, lathe, grinder etc. Those types are a dying breed. Most "machinists" now are set-up in the 5 axis pre-programed NC machine, and justs makes sure the 5 axis machine is fed with raw material and coolant.

To get the experience of the "old machinist" you would need to work as an apprentice, and at a "job shop".

As stated earlier, that job will give you experience with everything a mechanical engineer creates and "flows down" for fabrication.

You came up with machinist, so are you thinking you would like to be the type of mechanical engineer that designs wiggets, or parts of a larger wigget?

 

[ewright33]

Thank you all for the advice, and please, if you have any further suggestions, add them...

Just fyi, I know what mechanical engineers do. Have been studying the job field for quite some time. I want to specialize either in working with spacecraft (which I know is aerospace, but I want to work specifically with spacecraft engines if I can) or power research (have not yet decided, btu whatever it is I want to work on designing engines/power supplies). I am pretty sure that the CAD operator will give me a good basis for design... However, has anyone done else done that personally? monkeydog: I would want to do the old type of machinist, but it may take too long for me, as I am trying to get my degree and become an M.E. as soon as possible. I want to design widgets...

 

[B16A2]

As much as I value real experience, I think for the first two years of your degree YOU need to focus on being a student. You're starting late as is and you've been out of the school game per se. I think you working while in school is a big mistake.

Freshman and sophmore years are no joke in any decent engineering school. There should not be much time for anything else after you take 16-18 credits. If you do any work, look into doing some work for a professor. They often hire undergrads to work 10-15 hours in the lab. Great hands on experience, and an "in" for grad school, scholarships, and grants, and it's something you hop over to work from class easily in most cases.

 

[pmover]

ewright33,

oddly enough, i did the same same 35-years ago . . . it took me 7-years to complete my studies (5-years part-time school/full-time work followed by 2-years full-time student and part-time work).

have you taken the college entrance exam (ACT, PSAT)? If not ,get this done forthwith. If so, review the material so you can best direct your academic studies. Check with the university(ies) you plan to attend and obtain the recommendations from the admissions folks. You will likely need your transcripts from high school or otherwise (if you have a GED).

the college entrance exam will give you an idea where your academic weaknesses are and which classes you MAY need to take before enrolling in the university.

obtain the BSME curriculum from the university(ies) you plan to attend so you can plan your studies.

seriously consider CO-OP program, this program allows students to have a work/study schedule whereby the student has alternating semesters of study and work. In some cases, the work/study may be concurrent. the university you plan to attend will have a list of CO-OP employers, etc. to aid you.

another consideration is to directly contact potential employers and investigate if they have a work/study (tuition reimbursement program) program for you to seek. You may be obligated to work for the employer for x-years upon graduation.

now, veterans these days MAY be having difficulties in finding employers that understand the relation between military duties/responsibilities and non-military duties/responsibilities (namely the jargon, etc.). this is because supervisors/managers/etc. do not have any understanding/experience of what veterans dis while in the military. just be aware of this possibility and do not let it impede your objectives.

if you are confident in your abilities and in obtaining your objectives, then consider obtaining student loans, grants, etc. to help you financially. believe me, attending classes on a full-time basis has benefits in that you are actively involved with other students and teachers. your education can be more rewarding and ful-filling. when i attended school on a part-time basis, i was merely a number to teachers and fellow students. i had to seek help from resources in which i little available time for. you also need to live within your means and not spend $ needlessly. i remember living off of $300 bucks/month, with 50% towards housing - not so these days. yes, you will need to pay back that student loan.

a long-winded response, but hope this helps and good luck!

Oh! btw, read the Eng-Tips site policies!!
-pmover

 

[cdxx139]

Are you going to school at night? It would seem difficult to get a "meanungful" job otherwise

I agree with B1A62, commit to full time day time school, and get a part time job. If you cant get the lab work setup, I suggest the service industry, like waiter or bartender. We are lucky to live in America where people tip their service people. Its great pay for little time, juts might lose a Friday night from time to time (thats when you make the most money).

I went ewright33's route and became a cad operator while in school. It was helpful, but if I had to do it over, I would have done the trade route, as stated by Fex32. The experience of creating or fixing what a mechanical engineer designs will make you invaluable when you become an ME.

Good Luck




knowledge is power

 

[ctopher]

Don't wait until you are out of the Army, start your education now.
The Army will help you.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[racookpe1978]

IRstuff (Aerospace)
31 May 11 14:21
Neither "machinist" nor "mechanic" directly relate to "mechanical engineering." The former fabricates, or refabricates, what a mechanical engineer designs, and the latter fixes it when it breaks.

I'm going to strongly disagree.

I think you're confusing the "theory and practice" of engineering - the drafting and design and calculation part of it certainly - with the "knowledge base" and experience that ADDS with the theoretical to make a full person's experience. To me, too few "engineers" CAN'T "feel" and see the flow of energy and stress and pressures through their part to the integrated whole. They know "book learning", but not operations and the real world of rust, dings, dents, scrapes, bad welds and bad conditions and real world damage and real world installation and repairs and tolerances.

Too many are hiding behind specifications and "what the bureaucrats wrote down in the reference" and are not designing and thinking and building better tools and machines. And, flipping it the other way, far, far too many ARE NOT applying the real world "bloody lessons learned" that are the foundations inside those same specifications and bureaucratic rule books. A very important part of your work as an engineer is to figure out the difference, learn who to consult and when to consult them (Hint: Consult your boss before the part breaks, but don't consult every time the part might break.)

TO me, getting your hands "oily" as an Army machinist, mechanic, tool-repair specialist, repairman, ordnance worker, or even forklift driver or rigger or field engineer digging ditches with a trencher and bulldozer is applicable. Engine mechanic? GT mechanic? Sure. Telephone or radio repair? Instrumentation? Ground-based radar tech? GPS or instrumentation repair?

What's your MOS? What do you do now? What do you like doing? What do you hate doing?

You're not in energy production, but take a message from that phrase "Drill, baby, drill!" "Learn baby, learn!"

 

[controlsdude]

I personally started out doing CAD operator jobs. It was a worthwhile tool for each succeeding job. All the jobs I interviewed since really want you to have CAD experience. I started as a CAD operator when I was doing COOP jobs during my community college days.

But I am electrical and know that mechanicals use CAD packages more then electricals. And the classes they take for mechanical CAD are more in depth and go into more different type packages.

Solidworks, use of 3D modeling, etc....as an example of mechanical cad package.

 

[msquared48]

The VA, of wehich you are apparently aware, and other organizations like the American Legion, have counselors and specific programs that can help train and direct you after you terminate from the service. As previously mentioned, although you think that your present job is not related to the ME profession, there is probably some facet that is, be it leadership, management, whatever. Don't rule it out.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[btrueblood]

" I want to work specifically with spacecraft engines if I can"

"has anyone done else done that personally? "

Yes. Got an Aero degree (BS then MS) at U of Washington, and graduated near top of class. With all of that, most of my colleagues (at least the ones who did R+D like I did) came from schools with specific courses in rocket engines. Princeton, Colorado State, USC, a few others. A lot of the newest spacecraft and launch vehicles are using engines designed in the former USSR, they are simply better than what mainstream US/Western aero companies have produced. Find a school, better a prof. (hint: he will likely have a last name that is hard to pronounce), with experience in the design of these engines.

 

[ewright33]

Okay, so here is my question again with some of this new information.

1) Which is the smarter option, for you engineers who are already in the profession: get a part time job and attend college full time to get my ME degree, or start out working in a tradeskill job related to, or at least partially related to, ME, then go into my ME degree? Which would give me a better foundation as an engineer? I know there are many different facets to engineering, but for now I just want to start at the lower rung, I don't want to get into R&D until I have good experience, because I see that as basically trying to build a house without ever having seen one or built one before (just an example).
2) If it would be better to work in a tradeskill job, what would set me up for working as an ME? In other words, would it be better to start out as an "oily" guy, working with my hands, or working as a CAD operator? Which is more applicable?
3) Has anyone had any experience with Oklahoma? I really want to live in Oklahoma, and I hear that OU has one of the better ME degrees there, but I was wondering if anyone has had personal experience...

Just to clarify: I am fairly certain that my current army MOS will set me up well for anything in engineering. I am in Intel, and I can't really talk about what I do, but it largely deals with managing people and information, getting to know all facets of any project, and basically being an information sponge by knowing what information to gather. However, I am tired of the army and of the job. It has many useful skills, but I don't enjoy it anymore and I truly do not like the military lifestyle anymore (I want to not be deployed, get my degree, and have my freedom back). For that reason, I want to get out. But my current experience, other than working on cars sometimes with my dad and a passion for learning and hard work ethic, is not in any way technical. I am very good at math and science, but I have been out of them for a while. And, as I said, if I am going to do a tradeskill first, I will have to get trained on the job. I am very wiling to do so, but I am unsure a) what professions I can start out at entry level with no experience and b) what the job market for those professions look like.

Thank you everyone so far who has replied! Please keep sending replies, this is all very helpful!

 

[zdas04]

When I got out of the Navy I was married and had the GI Bill. My wife worked and I went to school full time (start to finish in 33 months). I was 6 years out of high school and felt like I was behind. I think that if I hadn't been married, the GI bill would have been enough for me to just get by financially in a dorm at a state school with in-state tuition and still do 4 years in less than 3.

In retrospect, I wasn't as far behind the curve as I thought. A co-op (and 5 years in school) would have been an excellent idea. The engineers I've hired from Co-Op programs have all been significantly more useful than the ones that raced through school like I did. Co-Op programs have you working with engineers and under engineers for months at a time, most of the mystery and uncertainty (about the profession, not the work) goes away.

Personally, I think the get-a-mechanic/machinist-job-and-go-to-community-college scenario is really bad advice. From what I see (mostly from friends of my sons), it is the rare individual that can stay focused on an education when they are making $15-25 an hour. I've seen a large number of people start down that road and then in 5-6 years notice that they haven't signed up for a class in 3-4 years and stop calling themselves "students". I've seen a few succeed like the folks who suggested it above, but they've been rare. "Easing" into school by going to community college first has been a path to failure for millions of bright students.

As the Tick noted, ME touches EVERYTHING. My first fluids instructor in graduate school was working on biomedical research so we learned more about shear forces than any of us wanted to know--it is easy to think "what does ME have to do with blood flow in a vein?" but we do. Time spent as a mechanic, or machinist, or plant operator will make you a better engineer. I strongly believe that the time I spent turning valves and wrenches in a nuclear power plant causes me to design better stuff than I would have otherwise. BUT, if you never get the degree then you spend your life as a machinist--nothing wrong with that, but you might have regrets.

If you insist on living in the Tornado Belt, I would suggest writing to the ME department at OU, OSU, and maybe Arkansas (my alma mater) and ask about Co-Op programs and how to get into one. If you get back any "we have emphasized Co-Op" letters then you know you are talking to an idiot (yes, there are many of them with PhD's) who have never worked for a living and probably should be avoided. My youngest son got that advice from UNM and before I could convince him to ignore the advice he lost interest in school and quit. I wanted to kill his advisor.

If you really want to go into aerospace you probably won't end up living in Norman or Stillwater (or Fayetteville) after school, so you might think about a school with access to that industry. University of Alabama, Texas A&M, Univ of Colorado jump to mind.

My oldest son is about to finish 8 years in the Army. He wants to be an ME someday too. So far he has totally ignored all of my advice, but he is claiming that he's going to start a distance learning program this deployment for sure (same thing he said on the last three). I hope you have better focus than he does.

David