HELP on an stamping issue 2

[dstan02]

I need a clarification on putting my PE stamp on certain projects.
My license is in another state in which I live, however, is it not true that I may stamp a FEDERAL project, such as on a military base, no matter what state my PE is in ?
In other words, I have a Wisconsin PE, live and work in North Carolina, and am doing projects on Ft Bragg in NC. I should be able to "seal" the project with my Wisconsin stamp as it is a FEDERAL project correct ?

 

[TDAA]

I have seen VA stamps in CO installations.

Personally, for some types of work, I do not like it. I think there should be local knowledge (sounds like you have that).

We have provided soils testing (geotech) for FAA projects out of state. This involved only the test results, and no opinions though.

As far as the legality: For the military installations, they are federal land. They are not technically under the states (or local governments) control. We have had to be sure we had an NRC (not state) license for nukes, and the contractors' erosion control was observed by the EPA, not the state. I would say you should ask, and be sure, unless you have another engineer that could back you up.

 

[zdas04]

Call the North Carolina Board and get their opinion, that is the only opinion that matters. The Boards tend to be staffed by really nice people who would rather explain the law (and their enforcement department's interpretation of the law) than initiate an enforcement action.

In my state, the Enforcement department is adamant that the Federal Government is obligated to comply with the laws of the state where their facility resides ("full faith and credence"), and any work done on a military reservation that would require a stamp on privately owned surface requires a New Mexico stamp on federal surface. But that is just this state. The next state over might have the opposite opinion when interpreting that state's laws.

Call the Board.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"It is always a poor idea to ask your Bridge Club for medical advice or a collection of geek engineers for legal advice"

 

[msquared48]

That's a good question - never had to deal with it.

However, I have stamped work for Tribal projects on their land alythough I was not required to do so.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[IRstuff]

Tribal lands are sovereign nations; neither federal nor state laws apply therein, as far as I know.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[rbulsara]

Only authorities that are required to review design drawings and issue permits can ask for which stamps are permissible.

State or licensing boards have no jurisdiction over federal (or tribal) facilities. It is up to the Fed. govt to accept whatever stamp they deem fit. So they need to be consulted.

The stamp only says that one is licensed is a particular state, nothing more nothing less. Whether or not it is acceptable, is up to the authority having jurisdiction.


Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[JLSeagull]

I too recommend a written opinion from the NC PE board.

 

[zdas04]

Rafiq,
The board in this state disagrees with you in the strongest possible terms. Our Enforcement director says that if a project on a reservation or on a federal facility requires a stamp and if that project has a problem that ends up with a non-compliance determination on a P.E. without a New Mexico license then their reaction is the same as if the Engineer was not licensed anywhere (plus the possibility of initiating a case in the state where he is licensed).

A federal or tribal inspector can decide to accept an out-of-state stamp, but that does not bind the local state board who take their responsibility to protect the public safety within their borders very seriously.

There are five reservations within 20 miles of my house. All of them have oil & gas operations. I have permits to work on all of them. Each one has a set of "laws" that apply to the reservation. These regulations are as far ranging as the laws of a state or federal government. Each has regulations concerning buildings. Some just say that buildings must comply with state building codes (which include extensive review, inspection, and standards language), others have adapted the standard language from the model laws that are out there. In every case (at least here) the tribal laws require someone licensed in their state to stamp anything that needs to be stamped. Just because it is a reservation does not mean that safety standards are any more relaxed than elsewhere.

I'm not sure where you were going with your first statement, but anyone can ask the board any question they want to. There are things that the board won't answer (usually regarding specific pending actions against an individual), but you can ask.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"It is always a poor idea to ask your Bridge Club for medical advice or a collection of geek engineers for legal advice"

 

[greenone]

This is similar to PEs stamping SPCC plans. The feds have told me they don't care what state the PE is in vs the location of the facility (no matter if it is a private facility or public), but the State of CA is quite clear that to stamp work for sites in CA, you must be licensed in CA. It's the state Board that's going to come after me, not the feds.

 

[woodman88]

IRstuff, if "Tribal lands are sovereign nations; neither federal nor state laws apply therein, ..."
Then why did it take the "Federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988" to allow the tribes to have casinos on their lands?

Garth Dreger PE
AZ Phoenix area

 

[MiketheEngineer]

In my experience - many industrial types just want to see that some PE from somewhere has bought off on the project. They usually just don't care. I think some wouldn't even allow the local building inspector on-site on the grounds the inspector/building official has no idea what the corporation needs or does - except maybe that they make oil or gas or steel or whatever.

That said - we as a multi-state and even multi-national company have gone to the trouble to get licensed anywhere we do work. Since I manage the engineering group - it just makes sense to me and not even bother to hassle with some bored clerk in a licensing board who could hang you out to dry.

Just remember - there is a lot of money in all those fees (say taxes) we pay. As they say - "follow the money" - thats where the answer will lie.

Lets talk PDH's or CEU's. I have to take my hours at a certain time of the year - so they count in all states.

One or two states have a mid-year to mid-year recording period. It get complicated.

 

[IRstuff]

Tribal lands tend to have zip in the way of infrastructure LEADING to the reservation. Therefore, while a tribe could build a casino its land, there would be no real road access, unless the state or feds get a cut of the revenues. As you may recall, California's last two governors have into gotten political entanglements over how big a cut of the casino's take the state would get.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[BJC]

"but the State of CA is quite clear that to stamp work for sites in CA, you must be licensed in CA"
Projects on federal property or owned by the US goverment are not subject to state laws. Go back to high school civics or history. There is a famous case that occured early in the history that clarified that point. If the states could block and requlate federal installations then the federal goverment was powerless.
Federal installation require PEs because they get a known quality of an engineer.
I have stamped drawing for DOS facillities in the several foreign countries. They were happy and I have never been registered in Ethiopia, Greece, Thailand etc. etc.
I don't have time to look up the case but i think it's a John Marshall decision. I think it was
McCulloch v. Maryland

 

[zdas04]

BJC,
You are confusing ducks and chickens here. The state does not claim to regulate activities on federal land. The state has no standing to sue the Federal Government for violating/ignoring state laws on Federal Land (otherwise way too many activities on a military post for example would be in clear violation of state labor laws). On the other hand, the states do regulate our profession. If they begin an action against an engineer for something he did on a Federal project, they can do whatever is in their power to do to any other engineer.

IRStuff,
Have you ever been to the Southern Ute Indian Reservation in Southern Colorado? How about the Jicarilla Apache Reservation in New Mexico? These two tribes have have been the main royalty owners in some pretty huge Gas Production and their income is measured in millions of dollars per day. They have infrastructure.

David

 

[IRstuff]

Then they wouldn't be interested in casinos.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[zdas04]

Really? Have you ever known anyone or any entity that thought they were "rich enough"? I haven't. In fact it has been my experience that the more uncommitted cash someone has, the more they are actively pursuing additional wealth.

David

 

[IRstuff]

Perhaps. Nonetheless, the two examples are exceptions, and the road infrastructures were built with the cooperation of the resident states, since there's revenue to be gotten by the states from the transport and refining of the oil. A casino, in of itself, generates little income for the state, while incurring wear and tear and construction costs on the roads leading to the Indian land as well as incurring law enforcement costs. These are typically recouped through what some state law that codifies the financial arrangement.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[woodman88]

So IRstuff what does the states do with the fuel tax they have placed on gas? I always thought they were to build and maintain roads to where we wanted to go. Places like Canada, Mexico, casinos, etc. I don't think that that Canada or Mexico are paying for the roads in the US to the borders.

Garth Dreger PE
AZ Phoenix area

 

[Ron]

I'm currently dealing with a common wall issue between a legitimate Indian tribe and a commercial owner...what a mess.

The tribe has sovereignty but the governing authority is sticking to their guns.. the tribe cannot exercise authority that harms the common owner! Good for the authority.

We are working on an issue that involves demolition of an historic property that will leave my client with an unfinishied, unprotected common wall that we, and the authority, are saying that the tribe cannot leave unprotected after their demolition....they are pissed, but that's the way it should be.

 

[IRstuff]

Well, in California, the fuel taxes have probably been pilfered to keep the general fund afloat. And they do the absolute minimum to maintain some level of usage of the funds and it shows, particularly after a solid drenching rain.

TTFN

FAQ731-376