help on chosing the right biopolymer for packaging

[Paolo6691]

Hi all, I am a long time lurker,I found a lot of useful tips on this forum. I signed up since I need to tap your vast knowledge on a specific topic

I need to find a good biopolymer to reduce the life-cycle carbon footprint of something very similar to Plastic Laboratory Bottles

http://www.sks-science.com/plastic-laboratory-bottles-p-5787.html

My idea is to offset the higher cost of PLA or PHBV (are they the right polymers, do you know of more suitable) by blending it with a traditional polymer like PP or PE, and use a cheap filler, for instance talc, to achieve the mechanical properties needed

is it the right way?
how much the carbon footprint would be reduced, I found 40% for pure PLA comapared to PE, is it right?

Thanks a lot

Cheers Paolo

 

[patprimmer]

Nylon 11 is made from castor oil.

You already have excellent properties so no extra fortification is necessary, infact diluents may be added to reduce cost.

Regards
Pat
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[Demon3]

The whole concept of carbon footprint is fallacious. It's a fad and actually hurts the environment and your bottom line.

There is no Global Warming much less any proof that mankind has affected temperatures. CO2 has never in history increased temperatures. The temperature always increased after the temperature went up for the last 100 000 years or more.

On top of that, you need a full LCA to tell which polymers are best for the environment and I'll bet you the answer is that PE and PP are best.

So, if you want to hurt the environment and trade in playing on people's warm and fuzzy feeling by peddling plastics that make no sense then welcome to the worlds of politics and marketing (not science).

If you really must pursue this avenue then I would blend the PLA with PET or PC because they have similar polarity and will be compatible. Blending with PE or PP will not give good properties because the two won't mix with PLA or PHB.

Chris DeArmitt PhD FRSC CChem

http://www.phantomplastics.com

Consultant to the plastics industry

 

[Paolo6691]

Thanks

yes I must go down that route, I will check blends of PET and PLA

I didn't know about Nylon 11, I will check

Thanks

 

[patprimmer]

I was actually being a bit naughty and playing with your head a bit.

Atofina or whatever they call themselves this week is the only source.

I am not sure that the CO2 produced in growing, extracting the oil and polymerising the castor oil might not be more than producing some cheaper commodities.

You may very well lose interest when you see the price.

Regards
Pat
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[Paolo6691]

HI, I checked Nylon 11, very interesting, but would I not have problems with fluids inside the bottles?

Cheers Paolo

 

[patprimmer]

Depending on what the fluids are and what diffusion rates you can tolerate. Nylon 11 is among the best nylons to resist water uptake, but it is still a lot worse than say PET.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[Paolo6691]

Thanks,

I think it will be a blend of PLA and PET then

any other advice that crosses your mind?


Cheers Paolo

 

[Demon3]

Try Ecoflex and packaging polymer (aliphatic polyester) that biodegrades. It's also available as Ecovio, a blend with PLA. See BASF's website or

http://www.ecoflex.com

Chris DeArmitt PhD FRSC CChem

http://www.phantomplastics.com

Consultant to the plastics industry

 

[Paolo6691]

Thanks everybody, I did my presentation, and it went well.

Cheers Paolo