help regarding probation period / work contract breach 2

[compguy22]

My work contract states that my probation period is 6 months. After probation period completion my salary is also to be revised (increased). Now I am about 7 months since start of work.

During the probation period there is one interim review at 3 months and then final review at 6 months.

During interim review boss filled report that decision is performance is OK so far, decision is employee retention and also verbally told me no need to do final review, same interim review report will serve as final. He said he will send a copy of interim report to me, but never did.

Fast forward, after 7 months of work, salary was not revised. I also assumed I am confirmed in my job, since no notice given otherwise; it was the opposite, I am given long term assignement and projects responsibilities. So far, no final review was done further.

Since salary was not revised, contacted payroll, thought it is admin misunderstanding. They said they were not instructed by Management to increase pay. Went to boss, said could you please take a look at, as there is % salary increase due.

Boss said, we still need to make final review on decision of probation period (despite 6 months having revolved). I said Boss do I have to assume probation period is not completed yet? He said it is completed but yet my final decision is pending, whatever that is. He said that he did not schedule review during 6 months period, on ground that it did fall during vacation time, stating this is not an excused but reality. BTW, Boss is licensed professional engineer.

I think there is breach of labour law. Would you be so kind to give me orientations?

Do I have to stick to two weeks notice if I resign.

Thanks

 

[IRstuff]

Without knowing your manager or having heard the conversation, there is no plausible way to interpret the remark; it could be an admission of not having made a decision to having made a decision against you that he's not ready to announce yet.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[compguy22]

Thanks IRstuff.

If we assume that all of this should have been sorted out within probation period hall mark, do you think it is proper (ethically?/legally?) to state a remark as such, as open to interpretation as it is?

To give you some context, I was assigned to work on long term projects by the end of probation period; in addition, during the interim review meeting, half way through probation period, I was given goals and objectives for year to go.

Please indulge my insistance. I am asking for more input, as I read through forum your posts (as well of others) and I am aware that you are a very experienced member. So, your input is valuable in that it helps me become a bit more empowered to face any internal conversation and to defend myself.

Thank you

 

[compguy22]

I have a permanent work contract (open ended). Since I am still employed, and probation period revolved since some while, what is my status with respect to code of labor :

(1) permanent employee confirmed
(2) permanent employee still under probation (outside contract terms)
(3) other status, if so which one and is it legal

 

[SWComposites]

It all depends on what country you are in and local laws, etc.

Have you bothered to talk to your peers at the company to find out what the typical process is in this company/country?

 

[LittleInch]

It's basically somewhere between 1 and 2.

In THEORY it's no 1 as more than 6 months has passed, they haven't said no thanks and they are still paying you.

The manager probably thinks it's no 2...

HR should be sorting it out.



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[dik]

LI... concur...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[compguy22]

Country is Canada, sorry for omitting this info.

 

[compguy22]

SWComposites,

Have you bothered to talk to your peers at the company to find out what the typical process is in this company/country?


To be honest not really. I did not "socialize" as much as I wanted; basically most work is done from home. What was basically a temporary measure during lock down, has become the rule or new standard and I feel its hard for management to try and reverse it! Office is kind of empty. I understand the WFH approach, but its kind of weird as I am a bit old fashion. I like the body language and all things that are shared or conveyed through face to face / in person meetings. But again, I do not complain about it, it is what it is. Let's say that working remotely is just not my preference. I like for instance so very much sharing a cubicle with colleagues I get along with and sometime speak about anything, and the "hey, shall we go for a coffee"!

Guys, sorry here for my long long drift

But ok, this should not be an excuse for me, and there is also way to trigger the subject, like over Teams etc. I can always try, its a good point. Its also who do you trust... still kind of doable.

 

[CWB1]

Sounds like your manager is a scumbag. Good leaders never let themselves become petty, and jerking employees around on pay and position is the lowest form of pettiness. If he forgot or otherwise made a mistake that put you in this situation then he should've had HR jumping to correct the error. JMO but it sounds like you're taking the correct approach by contacting HR to investigate and document the issue.

 

[compguy22]

What if, HR are not very honest (I do not know!!) and them together with Boss had had side talks and would just protect themselves and just play politics.. not necessarily according to "the Spirit and the Letter" ? what are my options?

I may be just overthinking it or simply loosing my mind!
Please indulge. Thank you.

 

[IRstuff]

You have two options
> stay the course and remain underpaid indefinitely
> continue raising the issue until you get fired or quit on your own

Nothing anyone here says or does can change those two options.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[compguy22]

IRstuff,

First off, thanks for sort of narrowing down the issues.

I am interested to know your thought process by which you arrived at this (which is kind of dilemma, or dead end - if you agree)?
Not saying its wrong, but If you are keen to elaborate, for example what makes you think I remain get paid indefinitely, how raising legitimate issues gets one fired etc., again you are certainly pertinent, interested to know the contours of your reasoning. Please.

Thanks

 

[phamENG]

Your boss has either made an honest mistake, or he's jerking you around. If it's an honest mistake, he should be able and willing to work to fix it when you bring it up to him. If he's jerking you around, you should quit anyway.

You have a contract, great. That doesn't mean that violating it is a violation of the law in a criminal sense. It just means they went back on their word. If what they're doing isn't a labor law violation (I'm not a lawyer and I don't live in Canada, so I don't know if it is or not), then the only recourse is typically civil litigation. So to enforce it, you have to have the means to sue them and survive without a job (or suffer through a really hostile work environment) while the suit is ongoing. Maybe you can find another job while the suit moves through the courts - not that I want to be the one explaining to my new boss that I need time off to sue my old boss. Usually doesn't look great. Either way, this is an expensive path and you may or may not be able to recoup those costs.

If it is illegal, which I doubt, then you can report it to whatever government body enforces those laws in your city or province. The investigation will likely take time. Once again, you're stuck in an unenviable situation.

So back to my first line - if they made a mistake, get it corrected. If they are attempting to exploit you, quit. If you feel that the work culture doesn't allow you to speak to your boss, or HR, or that it is overwhelming you and demeaning you...quit. Life's too short to be beholden to your employer. Find one that values you for the skills you have, the skills you can learn, and the value you can add over the course of your employment. They should show what that value means to them through attentiveness to employee/HR issues, competitive salary, good benefits, and a positive and empowering work culture. Might take some time to find the right one, but there's probably one out there for you. And if not, start making one.

 

[compguy22]

phamENG,

Thank you so much. By the way, Kudos to you because you have a healthy mindset.

I do not know the labor law in details, but from the little I read about it, in the province where I live, an employee have little to no protection (apart from recourse to civil litigation) when 2 years of service have not been completed. So I have no expectation in this respect.

Certainly getting rid of an employee on ground of failing their probation period is way more easy than to fire him soon after he would have been confirmed as permanent. On the one hand and to some extent, this would resonate as an acknowledgment by the employer that they failed to evaluate the employee properly thought the relevant procedure and assigned timeline which is awkward, well kind of. On the other hand, firing a confirmed employee is perfectly doable however this would normally require to go through the disciplinary action route; not always but I know the company has a focus on employee retention.

So maybe my last question before I wrap up the case,

In case I am called to attend the probation review meeting, maybe demeaned and concluded as not satisfactory for the job, do I have to acknowledge / sign the final review report? I have seen one and I know it is to be signed by employer and employee. What do you suggest?

Keeping in mind this can only be a honest mistake to.

I am shy to bother you again. I do not share these worries with my family/relatives to not stress them, at least not speaking up at this point. So I am asking here kindly for support.

Many thanks

 

[IRstuff]

what makes you think I remain get paid indefinitely

Indefinitely means no obvious end point; since your boos basically blew you off, he's fine with paying you a fraction of what he's supposed to be paying you. This should be pretty obvious to anyone, including you. The proper response from him should have been, "Ooops, we screwed up; I'll go and fix this immediately." He either hates you, but not enough to fire you, and not enough to not pay you a smaller salary, or, he's a moron that you shouldn't be working for anyway

They're either going to fix the problem, but they've shown no inclination to do so, and constantly reminding them that they are in breach of contract will annoying enough that they would fix it, and give you back pay, or they fire you for incompatibility with company culture, blah, blah.

This is all pretty obvious, even to you, so it seems to me that you are asking simply to stall for time from doing the inevitable.


One option, to push it, is to casually mention to your boss that you've started looking for other jobs, since you cannot continue at the pay you currently are being paid. Of course, you need to be ready for them calling your bluff, since it really ought not be a bluff at all.


TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[compguy22]

Ok IRstuff, noted, thanks a lot.

One option, to push it, is to casually mention to your boss that you've started looking for other jobs, since you cannot continue at the pay you currently are being paid. Of course, you need to be ready for them calling your bluff, since it really ought not be a bluff at all.

Food for thought... thank you...

 

[Brad805]

I think part of what you are experiencing is the reality of remote working at a large company. You are an entity without a face or personality and they seem to be taking advantage of you. I suggest a more assertive approach. In general, we engineers are not great at dealing with conflicts. I would stop trying to read minds and get them to confirm what about your work is deficient, or why you are still on probation? This needs to be in person with your manager or HR.

 

[LittleInch]

Going back to the start of this, you are only one month late and it is August.

I always tend to go with the incompetence option....

Basically a contract of employment is exactly that, a contract. So long as the contract doesn't include things which are contrary to legislation, the enforcement of the contract from either party is a civil matter.

It will contain clauses about dispute resolution which you need to look up.

But life isn't perfect and there is only so much you can do. But I think you're in danger of over inflating what could just be incompetence or a lack of time to complete what your boss probably thinks is annoying administration which is getting in the way of "real" work....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[IRstuff]

But I think you're in danger of over inflating what could just be incompetence or a lack of time to complete what your boss probably thinks is annoying administration which is getting in the way of "real" work....

Regardless of that, the OP is already one month into grossly underpaid territory, so it's not a "no-harm, no-foul situation"

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[LittleInch]

Well we don't know how much this uplift is.

10%?
If it's >30% then OK, grossly is a good description.

Then it becomes an argument over back pay once the report is finally written or agreed as being reached.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.