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[Polymathic]

I’ve been a lurker to these forums for a long time, and always find the advice and solutions given by its members to be of great value.

I am at a crossroads at the moment and need a sounding board. Currently I am a middle manager at my company, and have realized that I do not have the credentials or desire to move up in my present company. While I find managing people under me to be easy, I am uncomfortable with the corporate politics or the need to choose sides to be in a certain clique. About the only position left to me would be the level of Director, but it would require me to pursue an MBA. My company is in a position to be bought out by an equity firm, and this will be the second time in about 6 years (I’ve been with the company for 8yrs).

I know that I am probably shooting myself in the foot for not continuing with the management aspects of engineering, but I feel much more at ease down in the trenches doing the technical work. I feel that I still have a solid 10 years in my career before reaching a dead end on the technical front and will have to reconsider a management role for continued employment. While pay is not the real issue, there will be a substantial increase. I have told friends that if I was happy digging ditches I’d do that for minimum wage, I am just lucky that I presently get paid for something I enjoy doing.

I have recently been approached for employment within another unrelated field of engineering. The position I am considering would be as a designer of the mechanical interfaces for energetic materials (pyrotechnic devices) used in explosive bolts for commercial and military applications for a new R&D satellite office of a rather large national company. I am excited about this new terrain.

My problem is that I am neck-deep in two large projects, and am pretty sure I do not want to give more than a 2-week notice on my resignation letter. I feel that I am abandoning those that work for me, and am hurting the company even though I know they were here long before I was employed and will be here long after I leave. I am considering having talks with some of the executives (after I confirm my new employment) prior to my resignation, but am not sure if that would be productive.

Should I tell those that work for me what’s on the horizon to prepare them, or am I asking for rampant rumors to spread? How do I reject a longer notice of termination (2wks vs. 3 or 4wks) without burning bridges? I can’t seem to remove the emotional aspects from this move.

Thanks in advance for all your replies.

**Every quotation contributes something to the stability or enlargement of the language.**

 

[30osk]

Unless I had a contract or made an oath to complete the projects, I would have no qualms giving a 2 week notice and sticking to it. But I've never been a manager, never will be a manager, never played one on tv, so I can't say that I've been in your situation. If someone took offense to me trying to improve my career situation, then I should not have any emotional attachment to them. We recently had someone turn in a 2 week notice at a very bad time relative to our project shedule. But I was happy for him and I never heard anyone say anything bad to or about him.

Are you saying you'll be unemployable in 10 years unless you're a manager or are you saying you could not progress on a technical track? I would think you'd be valuable.

Congratulations on being able to do what makes you happy and getting paid for it.

 

[Heckler]

If the person holding the most important position in the country can give a one sentence letter of resignation. I think after you have made up your mind it will be easier for you to remove the emotional aspects.

http://www.watergate.info/nixon/resignation-letter.shtml

R&D satellite office of a rather large national company

LMCO or BSS?

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 3.0 & Pro/E 2001
XP Pro SP2.0 P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

(In reference to David Beckham) "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right." -- George Best

 

[TStaples]

Polymathic,

I went through exactly what you are going through only 8 months ago. I would not worry about giving any more notice than you can. However, In my situation, I was able to give 3 weeks notice, which allowed my upper managment a week to come to grips with it (i.e. run around in denial for a week) and then 2 full weeks to actually implement a transition plan instead of the usual hectic 1 (final) week.

Congrats to you for pursuing what you want to do! Go for it!



-Tony Staples

http://www.tscombustion.com

 

[Polymathic]

Heckler, maybe not as big as LMCO or BSS. The parent company is DHR or Danaher.

30osk, I think my 10yr shelf life stems from my lack of desire to not pursue higher education at this time. Maybe in 10yrs I'll feel differently, or the sun will explode. I was saying that I probably have at least 10 more years safely huddled in the trenches.

**Every quotation contributes something to the stability or enlargement of the language.**

 

[kchayfie]

While you are thinking about making the move, start to make sure that all your paperwork is in order and all the information your successor will need is documented and accessible. That way, when you give your notice you'll have a better argument for leaving after 2 weeks. If the paper trail documents everything in your head you can just point your successor in the direction of the paper trail and move on. It might take him another couple of weeks to get up to speed on the projects but that isn't your problem.

 

[GregLocock]

You've found something you want to do that is a new challenge.

Well done. Follow your nose.

The rest is details.

Standard advice: don't burn bridges, but they don't have to love you, either.

Like, they do have a sensible succession plan, don't they ? (laughs)


Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Polymathic]

Kchayfie, I have already started on a Word documents and Gant charts. I don't think I'm overlooking anything, but I might be.

GregLocock, I've been here long enough to see the same succession plan time and time again. It is truly transparent.

**Every quotation contributes something to the stability or enlargement of the language.**

 

[johnp]

I know how you feel mate,

Been there, done that. I have been a Project Engineer for 40 years. I needed a change - to destress. Took a Course in Certificate III Tourism Operations. Third largest industry in Australia. Now I'm looking at promoting and developping Tourism events and facilities in the $2 - $5 mil AUD CAPEX range. Now I get to do things from the heart, instead of within the crush of a SHUTDOWN Critical Path.

We live in an age where the Corporate World is aggressively attacking the environment. Climate Change is a polite way of saying that the environment is starting to fight back. If you want some food for thought on that send us an email asking for "Who is the Corporate Beast".

Relax. Let go and let god.

Regards - Sgt John.Rozentals
University Regiment (retired)
CEO Latvian Tourist Society

latviantouristsociety@yahoo.com.au

http://www.latviantourists.com.au

Johnp.Rz

http://www.mets.net.au

 

[dogtop]

There is NO room for loyalty in business.
Turn in your resignation with the customary 2 weeks notice. During those two weeks, get together with your "superiors" to work out the "transition."

Good luck and enjoy your new assignment.

dogtop

 

[Ashereng]

This is what I would do.

1) After accepting the new offer, I aske the new company when they need to know my start date.

2) I give my two weeks notice (or whatever is stipulated in your contact), and sit down to discuss transition.

3) If the new company is okay with more than a 2 week later start date, and the old company would like you to stay longer, then I would stay the longer time. If not, then I leave in 2 weeks (or whatever was in your contract).

Yes, Nixon gave a one line resignation letter. Actually, I have used a 2 line sentence resignation letter also.

With regards to loyalty, emotions and etc. Yes, I believe there is room for loyalty. In fact, I think loyalty, honesty, integrity, niceness, good manners, empathy and all those other good HUMAN traits are critical. I have had old colleagues/bosses/adversaries/reportees call and offer jobs because they thought highly of me personally (as opposed to the clients/positions I represented). This is a small world. Easier to be civil to everyone - that way, you don't have to remember who your enemies are, and who they know.
;-)

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[atlas06]

We are all expandable, no one is THAT important, countries lost their president and found a way to prosper (JFK). Companies lost their CEO's in airplane crashes happen all the time, department heads dying suddenly with cancer, etc.. and life went on.
When you leave the company, life will go on, just like it went on before you were hired.

But from reading your post, you seem like a guy that has enough of two worlds to open his own company instead of going on to work for another firm again.

Good luck

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

'tis a sad truth in life that we are all expandable. Every year, I expand a little more.

 

[sms]

I agree, give the 2 weeks notice and stick to it. But also be prepared, given your responsible position, that they may call security to watch you pack your desk and escort you out the day you turn in your notice. I have seen it happen before.

No one is indespensible. Do what is right for your career..

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[ScottyUK]

But also be prepared, given your responsible position, that they may call security to watch you pack your desk and escort you out the day you turn in your notice.

So get any information you need out of the gate long before you hand in that resignation letter.

Slightly more seriously, how many people can admit to taking copies of information for their own reference in the weeks before moving jobs? Is this any more ethical than actually handing it to a new employer?


----------------------------------

Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[Polymathic]

I've collected 6 CDs worth of information that I copied this week. If it is data that I have created or formatted I don't see an ethical dilemma. I would also rather have the data available to me rather than risking that it gets archived and no one understanding what they are looking at after I leave. Of course this may be a different story if someone was moving to a direct competitor for new employment.

I suppose my main contention for starting this thread is the abandonment issues I feel towards my people. I run a lot of protective interference for them, far more than anyone should. The culture at my company is such that it is common place for people (even the President sometimes) to wander through the engineer department and directly ask someone to complete some task. There is probably not a week that goes by that I have to "remind" someone that they need to ask me first. I am not a micro-manager nor do I have control issues, it is simply a function of knowing what my available resources are, and knowing the best person for a particular task.

I tell everyone that works for me when they are approached in this manner to reply along the lines of "let me discuss this with my manager first and I'll get back to you." Sometimes it is enough of a hint for the requestor to seek me out directly to explain what they want, other times they continue to push with "it will only take a momment". Some VPs can be very persuasive and a bit intimidating to some.

**Every quotation contributes something to the stability or enlargement of the language.**

 

[Polymathic]

I thank everyone for their participation in this thread. I will follow the Nixon route for my letter and tread lightly.

**Every quotation contributes something to the stability or enlargement of the language.**

 

[IRstuff]

Obviously, one thing you should do is to inform your people as soon as the letter is in, which is the right thing to do.

Then, work out how to transition everything to your probable successor. Obviously, if your new company is willing, you can offer a longer notice, like 1 month. That's a nice professional thing to do. Just because companies can behave like snots doesn't mean that you have to be one as well. As an added benefit, you might wind up working with or for some of the people you leave behind, so leaving a good impression is simply professional prudence for your future.

I've never left a company with less than 1 month notice. Two weeks is often too short for people to make it through the denial period. 1 month allows them to go through that period and actually start to work on a real transition of knowledge and responsibilities. This avoids the rush that often occurs, where a pile of stuff is dumped on someone the last Thursday and they have to pick your brain while you're already walking out the door. That's something people do resent. An orderly transition is less disruptive and less likely to engender resentments.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Polymathic]

Things have really been hectic since the last time I posted.

I originally asked for a 15% increase in salary when I interviewed, the competing company only offered 8%. I was ready to move for that since personal growth is more important to me than anything else, but my employer wanted to keep me and offered 20%. I declined the offer from the competing company and was willing to stay with my current employer.

Things have gotten strange now, and the competing company contacted me to ask what it would take for me work for them. I don't consider myself a prima donna, nor am I arrogant. I know my value to my current employer, but do not know perceived value at a new employer. So I told the competing company that I would work for them for the same 20% and existing benefits I am getting here. They agreed and I am waiting on the final offer letter.

Last night I received a call from our GM (CEO, President, whatever title fits), and he counters again, throwing in a vehicle allowance. I've made up my mind to leave, but I am curious, how do others deal with aggressive negotiations like this? Should I sell my soul, entertain a counter-counter offer or make a clean break while I still have my morals?

**Every quotation contributes something to the stability or enlargement of the language.**

 

[KENAT]

I have a feeling you're more usefull than you make out!

I thought my last place bent over backwards for me when I left but not in comparison to you.

The one possible problem with driving a hard bargain is that if a downturn ever comes and they're looking for layoffs etc it gets remembered, at least around here. Potentially this could go for both your current employer or the new one.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...