HELP! Which CAM software to purchase?? 2

[metalcut]

I am an industrial engineer assigned to evaluate and purchase CAM software for our plant. We manufacture hydrualic piston pumps in low volume. To date we have done all CNC programming by hand, but I have a new boss that insists we go to using CAM software. WE have many lathes that utilize C-axis and live tooling. We also have a 4 1/2 axis Integrex turning center. Finally, we do lots of 3 1/2 axis milling on horizontal machining centers.

I have narrowed our choices down to ESPRIT, EdgeCAM, and CAMWorks. I realize that CAMWorks does not currently support the Integrex, or our C-axis lathes, but it has many advantages that have kept it in the running. It has SolidWorks on the front end, excellent tool file management (Access-based), it is half the price of ESPRIT, and our tech support would be fifteen minutes away. PROCam (another TekSoft package that CAN handle our lathes) will be included at no cost until CAMWorks can handle them.

I have had all three companies in for demos and, with the expection of CAMWorks not handling our lathes, I am confident that all three packages will meet our needs. I have heard that ESPRIT's tech support is weak though.

I welcome all input regarding any of these three packages.

-Metalcut

 

[jrtaylor62]

Have you tried out Featurecam? I think it is the best software on the market for cnc programming. I currently use it regularly and I'm very impressed with it. It will take a native solidworks file and import it for machining.
Check it out before you make a purchase because I think you will be very impressed with the software. Let me know if you need a demo and I will put you in touch with a dealer.

 

Gibbs software is probably the best you will ever find, hands down.

 

[SLG]

AVOID the Teksoft ProCAM software like the plague. I have been using ProCAD/ProCAM for nine years. The software is always full of bugs, always has been. The latest version, ProCAM 2, was released in November of 2001. Here it is August of 2002 and the program still will not allow you to print out a drawing. I've been through 12 different printers, all the drivers, and installed the software on 5 different machines; same result. I know of 3 other shops with the same problem. The new software finally became backward compatible with older drawing/cam parts at the end of May(latest revision 748). It still has compatibility issues with it's older versions. I was relieved when my shop started purchasing Mazak lathes about 6 years ago so I wouldn't need to use the lathe portion of the program. The lathe posts NEVER worked right. On a stepped bore, the post would pull out to the level of the first step and procede to crash through the side of the part. Teksoft NEVER corrected the post. Enough ranting, you have been warned.

Solidworks is a very good 3D modeling program, and would be my choice for a 3D program. I've not used Camworks. The two job shops I know that used Teksoft ProCAM have discontinued it and gone to Gibbs software with good results.

 

[Yahnozha]

We use Solidworks for the 3-D aspect of design and utilize Gibbs software for the tool paths. Pretty happy with both...the exception being that Mastercam is the program to use with solidworks from what Ive seen.

I like the power of Gibbs and am very satisifed. They even wrote a special post processor for me when I needed a long hand output for extremely long tool paths...

 

[knobhead]

Unigraphics is very powerful, but it's also very hard to learn. (I found!) If you want to get up to speed quick, and you've no experience of CAM I'd go for the quickest and easiest to learn.

When my company went through a similar excersise our shortlist was down to MasterCAM and EdgeCAM. We were already using Unigraphics but it was just too much work to use, we needed a quick, simple, easy to use solution and we went for MasterCAM in the end. Very easy to use, and excellent support. Excessive accuaracy is a sign of poor breeding. -Socrates.

 

[WIPLASH]

master-cam offers a great cam package at a reasonable price.I have used it for many years, and I have found nothing for the same money that gives me as much control over the tool path.There are much easier and cheaper
packages out there but you will find later on when you get into some tricky machining you will find that you do not have much control over the tool path.Master-cam is also excellent for programming 4th 5th axis machines,and yes even c-axis lathes are easily programmed.Their support is great and more production shops use it than any other packages.Yes I agree that there is many better packages(unigraphics,gibbs) but unless your building molds, none can compete with master-cam for the money.Especially now that they have integrated there own solids into the cam package.

 

[cmattson]

I would check out GibbsCAM before you make a purchase. "Powerfully simple. Simply powerful." I had the opportunity to receive training from Gibbs and I was amazed!! I had used a couple different CAM systems before and hands down Gibbs is the answer. The support from them is top notch!!

 

[PV1]

Hi Metalcut,

If you are programming the Integrex using Mazatrol and it is serving your needs, you may not want to switch, for this work center. Mazatrol is awesome.

If your work is basically 2 1/2 axis simple work, then you way consider Surfcam, Geopath, or Mastercam for the remainder of the shop. Surfcam could probably handle your Integrex pretty well, if you don't do 5 Axis Simultaneous work.

If you have a need for multiaxis programming (5 axis simultaneous motion), then you may consider NCL. It is the best. But, there is a learnig curve far greater than that for learning Surfcam for instance. This is true for all the high end systems.

If you have to this point been creating programs by writing G code programs, then you probably could use one of the simpler programs. And to be honest, although I love Surfcam, your shop may love Geopath, because it is the simplest of the three I suggested, and the least expensive.

You should also consider talking to you Mazak sales rep to see a tour of the Kentucky Mazak plant. It can really open tup the possibilities to what Mazak is doing, and how.

 

[Sirius2]

I agree with SLG.

Avoid teksoft 'procad/procam' for any real cad work.

Printing is a frigin nigtmare, illegal operations, crashing on trimming and a whole plethora of problems and strife thats the bane of my working life. Its not improved from the days of dos in many areas, the program is virtually the same as it was 15 years ago on the Cad side. Very poor.

I have never used the turning feature of the Cadcam, only the milling. In its defence have to admit that the way they go about setting the machining parameters up is very good and the whole process is *very* easy to use. I had a 1 and a half day training on 3d cad in teksoft's procam, not covering machining, and I after a few hours back at work I was programming parts self taught.

Camworks, Ive never used, so I cant comment. Its where the Teksoft Procam programming budget has been going all these years by the sound of it! lol.

Dont be swayed by getting Procam/Procad or ProcamII bundled in - it really is a nightmare for design, and agreeing with SLG, the posts can suddenly plunge in on your job for no reason - often even when it simulated OK.

Ive not used many CAM packages, but am keen at genning up on them. I liked the look of the Cimatron 'E' package going off the site.
I tried mastercam and gibbs cam, but hated the interfaces a LOT.....not saying the features arent there, just that its not a slick looking/joy to use program.

See ya

 

[thundersaint]

I suggest to use Esprit
100% garunteed

 

[knobhead]

Your problem is going to be finding a Post processor that can churn out Mazatrol for the Intergrex. Unless you're happy to ditch using Mazatrol all together and just use ISO code, then you could be a bit stuck.

As far as I know, because Mazatrol is proprietry to Mazak, no CAM software will churn out Mazatrol. (Except Mazaks own Camware thing of course)

If you're doing fast turnaround stuff at your place then I would recommend keeping the Intergrex on Mazatrol and just use CAM from your other machines. It's so quicker to write a Mazak programme from scratch than an ISO program using a CAM program that you would be handicapping yourself.

On the other hand, if your doing long runs on the Integrex for day after day, losing Mazatrol is less of a hit.

For me the toss up would be between Mastercam or Edgecam. Both are excellent.

Excessive accuaracy is a sign of poor breeding. -Socrates.

 

[jssenn]

Check out Cimatron E. Very powerful 3D solid modeling package with a mold design. Has a great machining package which includes high speed machining features. Gives a lot of control in how you want to machine.

 

[EdDanzer]

We spent some time earlier this year looking at CAM software. We currently manually program all parts, mostly 2 and 2 ½D parts with simple geometry designed in SolidWorks. Since we do the design, obtaining dimensions for programming is fast. We had a Mastercam demo and a Camworks demo. It took Mastercam longer to program a part than manual. Camworks couldn’t even program 1 simple part because the tool path was straight in and out on the Y axis.
We reuse proven programs for parts that have similar geometry or tools. We have base programs for each tap size that can be added to a new program, port tool programs that have the all the tools to do the port grouped together and other basic groups of tools to make features that are used to make a part. The advantage of this over CAM is speed of writing and proving the program. If your products have similar basic designs, modifying a proven program will increase productivity by reusing the tweeks made as a program matures.
To modify a drilling, and tapping program usually takes less than 5 minutes, about ½ the time of any CAM system in fact this can be done at the machine. The best I did was 4 different part numbers that had 2 drilled holes in each part in 15 minutes floor to floor for the 4 parts. The material was the same thickness, the holes were the same diameter just the location of the holes and shape of the plate was different for each part.
For turning we have similar basic programs we use to do programming.
Where manual programming looses is complex pocketing, and surfaces but we only do 8 or 10 of these parts per year.
You will need to determine how much time can be saved with CAM to know how it will pay for it’s self. Don’t buy it just to say you have it, make it make you money just like the machine tools do.

 

[Steveeng]

I'd like to draw your attention to a small program written by a Guy called Mark Thomas.
He's called this program GenGCode.
Basically what it is , is a program made up of modules of simple shapes and operations where you fill in dialog boxes and the program then writes the G Code for your machine.
No dxf files, no drawings and no CAD CM software.
Very usefull for the odd simple shape which is very common today, in fact most complex parts are shapes added together.

This is still in Alpha stage but most of it is working. The program covers rectangular pocketing with multiple cuts to depth, circular pocketing, circular array, rectanglar array ellipses and slots.
Later on it will have a library of simple shapes such as DB25 cut outs etc and text milling.

It's well worth trying. The web page is at:-

http://home.inter.net/mthomas/

and contains some good screen shots and descriptions.
This is your chance to get a progarm altered to suit the way you work.
John S.

 

[droopy420]

I have worked with a few CAM systems in the past, including Mastercam, and I agree that GibbsCAM is the best, hands down, if you are looking for a CAM system and not a CAD system. It is powerful enough to use as you would like to, yet simple and quick enough to make small modifications to your programs.

 

[MDAPSEY]

We use Edgecam and for the most part is has been a great tool. We can open Inventor dwgs straight into Edgecam and this has helped. I have had no issues with support, but a lot of that has to do with your VAR and I have had good results with mine.

 

[RUSSCST]

(2D) geopath or grifo brothers(camlinks) for mazaks but(3D) gibbs for for a little bit more

 

[Kings]

CAM programs to Intergex
I use Mazatrol programs with ISO CAM paths together.
We were using UG R18 at the time and the trick was to change the PP to 1/2 the Diameter in X.
It was'nt as simple as that, but inserting CAM surfaces into mazatrol program-no problems.
It's always dependent on your needs as to what CAM software to use, but high end stuff can be simplified with ease to requirements then still have room for the future and more complex paths.
Have used Teksoft ProCad/CAM for many years -Do not Bother !
In 1990 it was good because it was 1990, 13 years later -no improvements.
I'm using Catia V5 now -very powerfull-easy to use. not for everyone, but going to be strong with Automotive suppliers soon.
All the best

 

[Rocko]

Gibbs, is way better for doing mold work than Mastercam. Mastercam is better for a do anything machine shop application.