Hex balloon vs Triangle Balloon 2

[DonkeyPhysics]

Not finding an answer for this one either (on this forum or others or ASME Y14.5-2009 standard).

Can somebody please tell me what the difference is between a hex flag/balloon and a triangle flag on a drawing?

I've seen examples of both appearing on the same page, but I don't know why, and I can't find anywhere that explains it.

Thanks!

 

[TWJR]

According to ASME 14.100, engineering drawing practices, section 4.26.6 Drawing Notes — Contents, it shows you can use rectangles, triangles, or hexagons. I guess it depends upon one's taste. We've used both triangles and hexagons here (not on the same drawings or programs).

 

[KENAT]

It will be company/drawing system dependent and if I recall correctly balloon shape other than round is not detailed in any Y14.100 documents.

Maybe you can glean an answer from an earlier thread:
thread1103-191201
thread1103-273831
thread1103-276149
thread1103-136196

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[TWJR]

Well, my copy of ASME Y14.100 2004 does indeed show a diagram of a rectangle, triangle, and hexagon.

 

[KENAT]

Correct so you are TWJR, 4.26.6 (f) - my memory clearly isn't what it was and your post was while I was typing looking at the time stamps so I didn't see it yesterday.

So what I was thinking of was apparently ASME Y14.35M-1997 section 5.4.1 where it specifically talks about using circular 'balloons' for revision symbols. Why it restricts it to circles I haven't a clue - I've more commonly seen triangle used for revision 'delta's' and since assembly drawings usually use round balloons for item identification it seems it could lead to confusion potentially even counter to Y14.10-2004 4.26.6 (f).

Back to the OP, here's a guess of what you might be seeing though I can't be sure from your description.

Are the hex flag/balloons referring to a flag note as in Y14.10-2004 section 4.26.6 (f)?

Are the triangles being used as revision symbols to indicate locally what changed with a specific revision per ASME Y14.35M-1997 section 5.4.1 (used instead of circles)?

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[DonkeyPhysics]

THanks Kenat. I looked through those threads (and also several others that included various combinations of the key words "balloon", "flag" "note", "hex", etc, but I'm still not coming up with anything concrete.

Basically, what I think I understand now is that flag notes (not balloons, as I incorrectly listed in the thread title) can be of many shapes, including circle, triangle, hex, and possibly squares or even "Squircles", which I don't even want to know about.

So, based on that understanding, it seems that a drawing I'm looking at that includes both hex flags and whatever this hex thing is... the hex thing is probably some other flag note not included in the particular page I'm looking at (which is an incomplete reference drawing).

Now that I've been digging into this whole mess, though, I'm starting to come up with another bit of information that is starting to seem important.

Our company is just now implementing GD&T. We are going to try to work to ASME Y14.5-2009, and I am apparently being their on-site guide to the subject since, while I'm nowhere near being a GD&T professional, I have more experience than anybody here. Up until yesterday, I had never heard of ASME Y14.1-100. Now I'm wondering if it's recommended/required for somebody who will be implementing Y14.5-2009. When I looked up Y14.1-100, I saw references to Y14.35 or something like that. Are there any other standards I should recommend we buy & implement now that we're re-vamping our whole process?
What would be the full list (if you happen to know numbers and titles, that would help a lot). If this is too far off scope, I can start a different thread. Also, if you happen to know that such a list already exists some place else, I'd love a reference to it.

Finally, if anybody can help me understand WHY the items in that list are recommended, that would be double super awesome!

 

[DonkeyPhysics]

Hey Kenat, your reply popped up while I was typing mine.

I have never heard of ASME Y14.10-2004 or ASME Y14.35M-1997 , and don't currently have access to them, so... I'll have to answer "I dunno" to those.

As for my example case, my old company (from whence this example drawing came) used Triangles as flag notes, circles as balloons, and nothing but Rev Letters in the drawing header (revision block) for revisions (i.e. no symbols around the rev letters).

 

[KENAT]

Typo sorry Y14.10 should have been Y14.100.

Y14.100 is the top level drawing standard for ASME "Engineering Drawing Practices" it doesn't have a massive amount in - much smaller than 14.5 - and many of the more specific subjects are in separate documents such as 14.5. I recomend getting it.

There is a FAQ (one of the silver buttons at the top of the page will get you there) that lists some of the relevant ASME standards.

In order of roughly how much I personally use them here are the standard I have copies of:

Y14.5
Y14.24
Y14.38 (though unless you're hardcore you may not care as much about this one)
Y14.100
Y14.3
Y14.6 (plus B1.1, B1.10 & B1.13)
Y14.35
Y14.34
Y14.1

I also borrow Y14.8 with some regularity.

Sadly, these stds aint cheap.

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[supergee]

I had worked with a company that used different symbols. I think ASME allows the use of other symbols as long as there is a document that explains the meaning of such symbols.

the company I worked for used an hexagonal balloon for parts used for transport or manufacture process only, and circle balloon for actual component of the assembly.

i.e. the part had to be bolted on the crating with wood screws, but once on site, these wood screws would be discarded an replaces with bolts.

We had a note referring to an in house standard that explained the hexagonal symbol.

I don't know if I helped. correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ewh]

Which symbol used is determined by company standards, not industry standards.

“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”
-Dalai Lama XIV

 

[KENAT]

Um, didn't I say that in my first post?;-)

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[ewh]

Yes, you did... I blame early dementia. ;-)

“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”
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