High temp clamp on flow meters

[Mechanical Farmer]

Looking for recommendations for a clamp on flow meter for polymer melt. Prefer adjustable from 1" to 4" pipe size and non nuclear.

 

[LittleInch]

Define "high temperature".

 

[pierreick]

Proline Prosonic Flow P 500 ultrasonic clamp-on flowmeter

The proven sensor Prosonic Flow P can be installed close to elbows, expansions or constrictions in the pipe and still maintain the same measurement accuracy. Even measurement of abrasive, corrosive or toxic fluids is no problem for the non-invasive clamp-on device. Prosonic Flow P 500 is mounted...

www.casc.endress.com

Check with them, E&H and ask for a trial, unless they have experience with your product.

My 2 cents,

Pierre

 

[LittleInch]

The biggest issue with UT clamp on meters will be the lubricant or coupling between sensor and pipe. But probably also need to check if the fluid is able to be measured that way depending on its sound attenuation.

what have you looked at so far?

Corriolis meter is prob best, but isn't a clamp on.

 

[Mechanical Farmer]

The biggest issue with UT clamp on meters will be the lubricant or coupling between sensor and pipe. But probably also need to check if the fluid is able to be measured that way depending on its sound attenuation.

what have you looked at so far?

Corriolis meter is prob best, but isn't a clamp on.

I'm just exploring, I was looking at the E+H Pierre mentioned above but that was just based on a quick google search. We've also looked at Vega Minitrac, but no everyone is comfortable with the idea of radiation.
I've asked my instrumentation guy for suggestions. This is for a special project so I wanted to come to the table with some suggestions before approaching him.

 

[Mechanical Farmer]

Proline Prosonic Flow P 500 ultrasonic clamp-on flowmeter

The proven sensor Prosonic Flow P can be installed close to elbows, expansions or constrictions in the pipe and still maintain the same measurement accuracy. Even measurement of abrasive, corrosive or toxic fluids is no problem for the non-invasive clamp-on device. Prosonic Flow P 500 is mounted...

www.casc.endress.com

Check with them, E&H and ask for a trial, unless they have experience with your product.

My 2 cents,

Pierre

I was looking at this one. I didn't know there was the opportunity for testing. I've asked if my instrumentation guy has an account with them.

 

[danw2]

Siemens high temperature metal block sensors, rated to 230 °C (446 °F).
pg 2 https://cache.industry.siemens.com/...5/v1/sitransf_fs220_fi01_en.pdf?download=true

 

[LittleInch]

I'm just exploring, I was looking at the E+H Pierre mentioned above but that was just based on a quick google search. We've also looked at Vega Minitrac, but no everyone is comfortable with the idea of radiation.
I've asked my instrumentation guy for suggestions. This is for a special project so I wanted to come to the table with some suggestions before approaching him.

Fair enough but you need to answer the question about temperature and why you need clamp on and whether ultrasonic will work in your fluid.

 

[Mechanical Farmer]

Fair enough but you need to answer the question about temperature and why you need clamp on and whether ultrasonic will work in your fluid.

I'm not going to be able to give any quantitative data regarding process.

Clamp on because
1) It is my experience that fewer things contacting polymer melt is better.
2) I would like to be able to use the same unit on different pipe segments of different diameter.

I presume ultrasonic will work but I don't have the instrumentation background to say for certain.

 

[LittleInch]

Well temperature range at the very least. Your "high temperature" might not be mine and vice versa.

When you're talking to vendors then the first thing they'll ask is for properties of the fluid to see if works with their meter, plus velocity, density etc

 

[Mechanical Farmer]

Well temperature range at the very least. Your "high temperature" might not be mine and vice versa.

When you're talking to vendors then the first thing they'll ask is for properties of the fluid to see if works with their meter, plus velocity, density etc

Fully aware, Any vendor that I speak with will have an NDA.

I am just trying to get an idea of the direction to go in. I don't want the legal team bombarded with 20 NDA requests when there might be a select few company (like MPI) that specialize in melt instrumentation.
I assume that, as a generality, what works for one polymer melt process will be a good place to start looking.

 

[danw2]

An issue with ultrasonic clamp-on in general is whether there is documentation for a medium/material's speed of sound at various working temperatures.

Those clamp-ons that have a list of liquids to select from typically use the speed of sound for standard, 25 Deg C, conditions. Sometimes they'll have a compensating factor for water at 60 Deg C or 80 Deg C.

Whether a vendor has knowledge of your medium's sonic velocity at operating temperature might be an issue.

 

[Mechanical Farmer]

An issue with ultrasonic clamp-on in general is whether there is documentation for a medium/material's speed of sound at various working temperatures.

Those clamp-ons that have a list of liquids to select from typically use the speed of sound for standard, 25 Deg C, conditions. Sometimes they'll have a compensating factor for water at 60 Deg C or 80 Deg C.

Whether a vendor has knowledge of your medium's sonic velocity at operating temperature might be an issue.

This might not be an issue for my application.

I am trying to experimentally determine Power-Law constants (n and K) at various shear rates. I need to plot the delta P vs V dot.
As long as the Volumetric flow rate is off by a consistent factor, I should get the same curve, the slope of which would be my flow behavior index, n.

Using arbitrary numbers below to verify that this should work.

 

[georgeverghese]

I set up flow control loops on hot high viscosity bitumen lines running 180-220degC with ultrasonic clamp on FT some 10years ago - cant remember the brand name , but it was some German company - worked as intended. They offered onsite troubleshooting assistance, which was re assuring.

 

[shvet]

Is there a need in theorizing of the fluid properties? How are you going to prove those are relevant?
Why can't you provide a simple measurement of a controlled volume?

Or this is a thesis paper?