How do you guys feel about working for a company that refuses to innovate? 11

[junfanbl]

So recently I proposed some ideas to my supervisor on how we can improve efficiency using machine learning.

I took some time to build a small machine learning model with some test data so I could provide an example of how the new process would work. Nothing that would function on a large scale. My co-workers thought the idea was good, but they warned me against showing it to my supervisor. Well I didn't listen...

I proposed the idea to my supervisor and mentioned that I made a small scale model to demonstrate how it could work. Well he not only didn't like the idea, but he gave me a hard time about using company time to put together the sample project.

Here is the thing though, he didn't even ask me how it worked, nor did he want to see it in action. He just dismissed the idea with reasoning that what you are trying to do is impossible. Which isn't true. This isn't the first time this has happened though. I often try to be innovative. It's something I'm proud of. However as of late my boss just finds me annoying, which is discouraging to say the least.

At this point I've abondoned all desire to improve anything and I'm starting to feel resentment. Is this a good sign its time to go find a new position?

 

[SuperSalad]

At this point I've abondoned all desire to improve anything and I'm starting to feel resentment. Is this a good sign its time to go find a new position?

If you are a person who doesn't want to settle for complacency, yes it sounds like it is time to move on. Another possibility is to go over your supervisor's head if you really believe in the project and you think the supervisor is just a roadblock for no good reason.

I was in a very similar situation up until this past October. I tried for years to prove and implement improvements in a variety of areas to no avail. Like you, fellow co-workers in the affected areas and even a few outside consultants were supportive of the ideas, but management wouldn't budge on making any kinds of changes. They were far too afraid to stick their necks out and appear to take any chances in the eyes of the corporation even if the outcome was pretty much guaranteed success barring gross mismanagement of the implementation projects.

A toxic culture toward any ideas that didn't originate from the highest levels in the corporate structure is the best way I can describe it. And this was throughout an acquisition and several major management shifts in those same years.

Andrew H.

http://www.mototribology.com

 

[ctopher]

I'm in the same position right now. Our products are being transferred to other facilities and overseas. I will be moving on this year.
The past 2-3 years, no innovations at all.

Chris, CSWP
SolidWorks '17
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[SandCounter]

Find another company that is looking for innovation, leave an join them.

I worked for a company for a decade that was in a 1000-year old industry. Everyone was pretty much set in their ways. The same problems came up over and over again but they were resistant to trying new things. I was never happy there but didn't really understand why. Now that I have been with a company that constantly seeks to innovate and solve problems, I am much happier and find a lot of meaning in what I do. I grew professionally more in the first year at the new company than I did in 10 years at the old one.

If you are salary and getting your assigned work done, a supervisor should be very pleased with someone who is being proactive and doing extra work to strengthen the company. I can only assume your supervisor is protecting his own position. What a shame.

I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.

 

[ornerynorsk]

There is no future in a company whose management and decision makers do not see value in subordinates that are more intelligent, capable, and creative than they are. As a manager, my greatest asset is the people who are better than me. If I can see it, nurture their growth, actually capitalize on their good ideas, and play defensive lineman to insulate them from bureaucratic nonsense and politics, THAT is when magic happens!

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[dgallup]

Any time we want to change things we have to quantify it in terms of return on investment. If it doesn't improve the bottom line in a short time period then it's not going to be supported. Sometimes it's hard to quantify but it does enforce a certain discipline on engineering to justify changes, not just changing things because it's the new trend.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

Ever watch a company in a very conservative industry try really hard to be innovative. All thoughts as to why you didn't do that before gets thrown out because you gotta be innovative.

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If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.

 

[oldestguy]

As an old supervisor of younger engineers I found that situation a few times. One thing old guys have is ability to see many factors that younger guys may miss. Experience has its place. Don't knock us oldies until you are there some day.

 

[CWB1]

I would wager your supervisor has seen more than his share of silly ideas as most all of us have, particularly with processes and workflow. By the sound of it, he may also have a valid point about how you're spending your time. A junior engineer taking an hour or two during a slow period or after hours to sketch out a potentially useless idea is one thing, taking a day or two without permission OTOH is quite another. Personally I would approach him again when he seems in a decent mood and has time, apologize for wasting too much time, then see if you can convince him to teach you what is wrong with your idea. You may not agree with your supervisor's logic but hopefully you can learn a thing or two and come across as someone wanting to learn and grow in your role.

As to companies not wanting to innovate, previous employers have innovated with products hoping for profit increases, with process as a cost-savings method, sometimes both, and quite often not the one they should. Ultimately everyone has a boss and sometimes the boss is wrong. All you can do is remain polite, do your job, and hope for the best.

 

[271828]

Were tasks with near-term consequences pushed aside during this R&D effort? If so, then the supervisor's reaction is not surprising.

It's possible he's overly controlling. However, when there's a desire to control someone it's very often because that person seems to need external control. We can't tell which it is from your description.

 

[truckandbus]

there are a lot of resources on the net or in print that outline the 4~6 elements necessary for successful change implementation (and what the typical results are when one or more of those elements are missing) - you should review and see if any of the missing elements are a result of something you had not thought of or if the missing elements are just not present in your company culture. Address the areas that you can and highlight the areas you can't as potential roadblock you need help eliminating - that way you present a scenario with the least amount of uncertainty.

it is also a good idea to establish a track record of small, successful improvements and innovations before asking people to take a larger leap of faith. Try to modify processes that are wholly within your work group that don't require changes to the inputs you get from other sources or noticeable changes to the output you provide

 

[D Scullion]

A couple of comments suggesting that the supervisor may see more bigger picture factors than you do and actually is making an educated decision based on experience. Fair point, but if your supervisor/manager/person you look to for guidance and direction, isn't prepared to offer you that explanation at the time, then that is a whole other reason why you should consider moving on. Worth asking, as CWB1 suggests, if for no other reason than to gauge what sort of person you are working for.

Also it sounds like you may have developed your proposal a little too far. Possibly it would have been better to go to your supervisor at an earlier stage and say "I believe we can improve efficiency by up to X% using machine learning and I would like to take X hours and $X to create this model to test it out" - If he did have relevant experience to share, that is the time you would have most benefited from it.

If it turns out they don't want to innovate, then move on, it's not the right fit and life is too short

Declan Scullion CEng

http://www.leandfm.com

 

[PawSoxRule]

I agree with this:

"Also it sounds like you may have developed your proposal a little too far. Possibly it would have been better to go to your supervisor at an earlier stage and say "I believe we can improve efficiency by up to X% using machine learning and I would like to take X hours and $X to create this model to test it out" - If he did have relevant experience to share, that is the time you would have most benefited from it."

No harm in bringing up an innovative idea to your supervisor. But if you spend a lot of company time working on a new idea without discussing it with your supervisor first, your supervisor may be concerned that you are not completing your assigned work, or that you are being under-utilized and have too much free time.

 

[oldestguy]

Quote: "I proposed the idea to my supervisor and mentioned that I made a small scale model to demonstrate how it could work. Well he not only didn't like the idea, but he gave me a hard time about using company time to put together the sample project."

This set-back serves you right. Sounds like you assumed too much as a beginner. Maybe after a few years try it again, but use better sense about using company time. If you worked for me that is one black mark on your record.

 

[Guest262653]

Fortunately, we all have different views on this. If you used company time to try to develop a more efficient way to work, you would be on my watchlist for promotion. Especially being a beginner with a low salary whose company time is cheap.

Nevertheless, there's sound advice on the rest of the thread regarding the most efficient way to approach your supervisors.

 

[IvanNX]

It seam that here we can see why western industry is going down and eastern countries go up... west make patents and protect them so nobody can use them as base for new ideas, ad east innovate everything. That is how China own half of USA industry and Europe import more than half of everything.
People who spend company time for innovations and bosses noticed that only after it was said to them, should be supported and nourished. Simply because he/she did his normal work PLUS investigate and innovate inside work hours. So he is better than how much they pay to him.
And old guys should be aware that they are ones who are responsible for decline of industry in Europe and USA, so stop pushing your way toward disaster and let young people full of energy take over and lead uphill.

_____________________________
Enjoy your work and have fun!

 

[IRstuff]

Patent protection is how you survive to continue innovation. You can't stay in business if people simply copy your designs and undercut you because they didn't have to invest in the development of the original design.

Additionally, patents fuel innovation, because they are public knowledge with full details of the invention, and you can see what the invention was and what the inventor claimed for the invention and what improvements they made on the prior art.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[junfanbl]

Thank you everybody for taking the time to chip into this conversation. The different viewpoints offered are valuable. I think in general, a little humility on my part will go a long way for all parties involved. I did use company time to implement the prototype. It was after my assigned work was completed however. Still, it wasn't technically authorized.

I'd like to continue pursuing the project, because I think it has potential and I'm still very excited about the whole thing. At this point, I'm not authorized to work on that project. Making it difficult for me to move forward. I've considered proposing the idea to higher ups, in hopes I can get more time to flesh it out. The awkward part about this, is that my boss is also my good friend. I’ve known him for years and outside of work we hang out sometimes. When we are at work however, we set that aside and are professional, not buddy buddy. It seems like the proper thing to do.

So I’m thinking, he isn’t giving me any ground here, so maybe I will have more success with his boss. I just don’t want to cause any hard feelings. However, at the same time I think, he has no problem taking his stance, so why shouldn’t I?

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[PawSoxRule]

In most situations this is not a good idea. Going to your bosses boss should be avoided, unless there is a serious situation such as your boss is doing something unethical etc.

How about trying to talk to your boss again, tell him you want to pursue the project outside of working hours? Maybe he will react differently now that some time has passed and you agree not to work on it during the regular work day.

 

[junfanbl]

I guess you are right. I am kind of nervous about it. Maybe I'll just leave it be. I don't really have time to come in during off hours.