How do you win projects? 10

[Maximusprime]

*** I am reposting this from another part of the forum, as I was told I would get better responses here. Mods, sorry if I am making a mess ***

Hey all, new guy here.
I wish I had found this earlier in my career! There is a lot of great advice here that I learned the hard way!

I have always been interested in the business end of the engineering business. it seems to me that the best way to make this profession pay off, it to be the guy bringing the work in. I do not fall into the typical stereotype of the nerdy engineer, and I want to chase down business, and lots of it!

How do you senior guys go about getting projects? The firm I currently work for is a MEP consultancy, and most if not all of our clients have been using us for longer than anyone can remember. Most projects tend to come our way by default, from architects who we have worked with for ever and ever. We have no program for finding new clients and our business development is focused almost entirely on maintaining relationships with several firms who have used us for the last 30 years!

You could say I am the young blood in the company. What do you recommend to attract new business? I don't have the grey hairs (working on them) or the decades of acumen that some of the principals have but I want to win a big one for the firm. What should I do?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I would tread lightly here... while I applaud your willingness to help the company, a misstep here with the wrong client can not only cost your company some serious face, you could potentially lose current clients.

First question I have to ask with that in mind is, "Is it in your job description to chase down new clients?" If not, be very careful, and make sure to let management know what you have planned.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[zdas04]

My first bunch of clients were people I worked with when I worked for a big company (many of my colleagues had left and moved into decision-making positions with other companies, I stayed in touch). That kept me really busy for 5-6 years then those projects started drying up (my friends moved into management positions that had people who hired engineers instead of doing it themselves and the new guys had never heard of me).

Since then virtually all of my new clients have found me through eng-tips.com. The new clients find eng-tips.com through a Google search; find one of my posts, like what they read and look further for other stuff I've written here, find my web page, find me, hire me. I cannot imagine a better showcase for a guy's problem-solving ability than this site. People with problems have seen something they liked in my writing. Bringing in new clients that way should make the principals happier than you going out knocking on doors.

When I do a Google search these days for a technical subject there is always several eng-tips.com hits on the first page. Hard to get better Search Engine Optimization than that. The trick is to write coherent, useful stuff, consistently.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"It is always a poor idea to ask your Bridge Club for medical advice or a collection of geek engineers for legal advice"

 

[Maximusprime]

Mac:
Yes, they are aware of my business development efforts. They actually hired me partly because they liked the fact that business development is the direction I want to take, and because I was ambitious enough to march into their office and explain to them why they should create a job for me in a recession. I came on board because I wanted to learn how to do it, unfortunately, I am realizing that nobody here really knows what I am trying to learn. I worked in Sales briefly when I couldn't find any work as an engineer, and I was fairly good at it. Selling services is a bit different though, and I am afraid to do exactly what you mentioned, and lose face for the company. I am trying to come up with a good strategy to get our name out there without looking desperate.

Zdas, that's some good advice. I am really glad to have found this forum. I wish I had found it years ago.

 

[JedClampett]

Business Development is pretty tedious. You need to call or visit clients or potential clients and learn their business and needs. This can take months or years. If you can save them money in materials or maintenance, you'll get their attention. In our place, we like to say we know about our client's projects before they do. Sometimes, if you have a good relationship, they'll ask for your input on the RFP. If you can get in the door with the study portion of a project, you're well positioned for the design portion.
Finally, with all things being equal, people like giving work to people they know. There will always be a social component in business. Stay within ethical lines, but cultivate a non business relationship with the decision makers (and future decision makers).

 

[patprimmer]

As someone who worked in market development and business development for years, there are a few basic common sense rules and traps.

1) Never discuss their oppositions business. If they see you being indiscreet about someone else, they will expect you to be the same behind their back. It takes years to build a reputation and trust and seconds to blow it all.

2) Be very careful criticising previous or current work. If you say who was the idiot that did that (or even subtly imply it) the idiot may be the one facing you.

3) Keep in depth contacts at the major existing accounts. As David found out, your contacts do move on and you need second and third or more contacts to maintain the business long term.

4) Knock on doors and use the phone. Both forms are required, but show respect for their time and don't waste it.

5) Prospects who don't see reps will see you if you can tweak their interest. They need confidence that you won't be wasting their time and you will likely impart knowledge to them or have a deal to suit their needs. Start of brief and very to the point about your companies capabilities and their needs and where they might overlap.

6) If your product or service does not fit their needs, say so. Maybe then explore a bit deeper if they are happy to continue, but don't flog a dead horse. It wastes everyone's time.

7) If you can't offer a really suitable product, walk away gracefully. That way you are much more likely to get another chance when you do have something they can use. Overselling an unsuitable product usually ends up in a failed project down the line and lots of burned bridges and even law suits.

8) If it is going to be a difficult or experimental project and nobody has a suitable product, go in on a VERY clear understanding that you will work with them, but you are both going where no man has been before and the risks are high for both. Even then they may use you as a scape goat.

9) If you get business easy or only on price, you can lose it just as easy.

10) For any really good customers, you really don't win their business, there current supplier loses it. You just need to be there or in the front of their mind when the current supplier stuffs up bad. This takes patience and serenity.

11) Sometimes a customer won't deal with you if they think you might also be working with a competitor. It can be done at times, but you need to be very careful about it and don't even try if an existing loyal customer is likely to react badly. For that to work, the existing customer needs to trust you implicitly.

12) Never sell purely on price. Sell on value. That is quite often the lowest price, but on occasion can be the highest price if your product has a major advantage. Higher price, higher benefit is often a harder sell as the price is a concrete principle and the benefit might be abstract.

13) Never promise more than you can deliver, and always follow up and deliver what you promise.

14) Never go into an introductory or first visit with everything. No one does a real deal on the first visit. Show them enough to tweak interest, but also search for their needs. You will very likely find they are different to your original thoughts. When you come back, you have had time to think and prepare and are then much better prepared to really meet their needs.

15) Listen more than you talk. You do not need to talk them into something, you need to identify their needs and align your offer to match. That takes carefully though out questions, product knowledge and a willingness to listen and learn.

16) Never be shy to ask for the order. They only agreed to spend their valuable time with you because they expect to get something they need from you. Once you identify a match between your wares and their needs, always ask for the order, but never push.

17) Always have a clear objective in mind whenever you call. Saying things like I was in the area, so I thought I would just drop in really shows disrespect and disregard for their time. Saying things like "I have reason to think we might have something of interest to you and I would like to investigate that" or "we are a supplier to your industry and I would like to investigate to see if we have something that will meet your needs" are much better lines to request an interview or to start of a cold call.

18) Your objectives should never be carved in stone. If the customer has done a 180 for whatever reason, think about your objective and change to plan B post haste if apropriate. I can recite a real good real world example of this if you wish to be bored with a long detailed story.



Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[debodine]

patprimmer:

I have MUCH to learn. Please expound on your point 18...I definitely want to hear (okay, read) it.

Thanks!

 

[Maximusprime]

Pat, this is some great advice!

 

[patprimmer]

OK

Best real life example of point 18. Sorry it's a long story.

I was sales manager at the time and my boss was product manager but I had the contacts at the parent company and the customer and the product and process knowledge. He was promoted over me for political reasons or basically he was a better suck up thsan me. Not hard as I suck at sucking up.

Application was reinforcing yarns for conveyor belts. Our customer typically used nylon from us for decades past but where polyester was specified he used a competitor. Nylon was by far the biggest share.

Our customers opposition used polyester as it was cheaper on a straight up tensile strength comparison in the lab with very uniform gradually applied loads.

Our customer was loosing market share on price so decided to match by switching many applications to polyester. He tried several polyesters and we lost out with an inferior product.

Weaving trials for conveyor belt reinforcement are very expensive. Unscheduled repair of belts at remote mines is also very expensive.

After our initial trials with polyester where unsuccessful, my contact at the parent company recommended we push for another trial with a new grade with higher conversion efficiency (ie stronger fabric from weaker yarn due to less strength loss during vulcanising). I advised my head office colleague that from my previous experience it would not work well enough and would put us in bad favour in future if we pushed hard for a trial that failed.

I also advised I expected a swing back to nylon as it performed better in the field due to higher elongation and therefore better load sharing when used in the dirt rock and mud environment and strategically we should be patient.

My boss overruled and drew up a plan for the visit complete with the objective of getting the customer to commit to a trial.

We arrive at the customer complete with rehearsed speal like a telephone call centre salesman. I don't say much as I don't like lying or pushing an inferior product and I really don't like failure.

My boss starts to push for the trail but the customer responds that their oppositions belts in polyester where having a lot of premature failures in the field and he had decided not to pursue the polyester route as he was regaining his old business with nylon.

My boss still kept pushing for the polyester trial anyway. I literally kicked him under the table and said, we should get fresh orders for nylon to ensure supply continuity against the new predictions.

He still kept over talking the customer to push toward his planned objective of a trial for polyester instead of changing plan to take the orders for nylon.

As I could see the customer who was an old friend of mine was getting annoyed, I eventually interjected that there would be no point in the trial as even if successfully it would result in no sales. He said precisely and virtually asked us to leave (ie he was busy and had urgent business to attend to). On the way out he asked me to come back tomorrow and he would give me a blanket order and delivery schedule for nylon for the next 12 months.



Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[debodine]

patprimmer:

Wow, that is certainly a case (on your boss's part) of failure to listen and understand what the customer's needs were.

There are times when dogged adherence to a plan contrary to the evidence can bring success. However, that is usually in the military field (think MacArthur's island hopping strategy, ridiculed by many but less bloody and more effective for isolating and neutrailizing Japanese strongholds) or the political field (think Lincoln's single-minded focus on finding a fighting general amongst the long line of non-aggressive generals he first had to try).

Such refusal to change direction is rarely a benefit in the world of corporate business decisions where flexibility is a premium skill. And even in the military and political fields there are still times where changing direction is the best call.

Thank you for the real life case study of point 18.

 

[IvanNX]

@patprimmer

do you mind if i quote your post with advises on my blog? i will give you credits for it on any way you like. i think these are good advises and worth sharing!!!

http://cad-unigraphics-projects.blogspot.com/

 

[patprimmer]

No problem.

If I post anything on a public forum, I do expect it to be shared.

I would prefer an extract of fair use quality and a link to here so as not to run any risk of breaching this sites copywrite.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[IvanNX]

here it is

http://cad-unigraphics-projects.blogspot.com/2012/02/advises-worth-sharing.html

if you have any objections just say so fix it
when you check this link fell free to delete this post.

http://cad-unigraphics-projects.blogspot.com/

 

[jmw]

Some ace posts from Pat.
There have been times I have wanted to kick managers but have resisted. Most managers, most days but some managers especially when in front of clients, you wonder where they left their brains.
There are also a lot of other people who should not be allowed near clients.
The "Who sold you this then?" and other goodies, for Monty Python fans, are available from Video Arts as a series of object lessons created for industry and usually featuring John Clease.

But be careful, I agree 100% with what Pat has said and as a consequence am probably unemployable now with a number of major global instrument companies and the feeling is largely mutual.

I would advise the client which of our competitors made what they needed if we didn't have the right product. It paid dividends for exactly the reasons Pat said.
But this is not what modern global single source manufacturing is about these days. Strategic alliances ensure the client gets what they make and only what they make and it is apparently accepted/implicit on both sides that sometimes what they get will be more expensive than a competitor product and sometimes inferior and sometimes both.
Tough.
That's life according to the new game plan.
According to Flow control network 70% of flow meters are the wrong size or wrong technology. I restate this as not "wrong" but "less than optimal" and a large part I suggest is due to this modern strategy.
These days it is expected that the salesman is there to sell the manufacturer's products and nothing else. He will do so even knowing they are more expensive and inferior.

This is where I and the majors part company.

When I sit in front of the client I take to heart that well worn Management poster "The Customer Pays the Bills" and therefore for that brief period I work for the client and he gets my best advice.
What I look for is where we will find that my objectives, his objectives and my companies objectives are all aligned.

So, while such companies would not employ me today, I am a long way from considering working for such companies.

Zda04:

The trick is to write coherent, useful stuff, consistently.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Longinthetooth]

One small thing that I learned the hard way. When bidding a project, bid the scope as laid out by your client, and not the scope as you think it ought to be. Lots of time for good suggestions after you have his signature on the contract.

 

[brandonbw]

geordie87: Funny how that works. And when the scope goes to what you knew it would be, the client is always happy to pay the full cost instead of the upfront discounted full scope costs. Yes we did this with a repeat client who didn't like getting the whole scope the 2nd time around with a discounted rate.

I have tried biting my tongue very hard when bidding jobs lately, but I still can't do it, and tell the client all of the possible issues that may come up. We just lost a really nice job because of this, ie. very difficult project and the more difficult the more I want them.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

 

[Longinthetooth]

BrandonBW--- I know what you mean. I always try to present the issues verbaly, if you have the luxury of a face to face meeting, but we always base the bid document on what has been specified in the scope. One problem is that it is sometimes the accountants who have the final say on contractor selection, and they only see the $$$.