How does PDM deal with configurations? 1

[darnell]

Within a couple of years, our company will go to a PDM system. We are getting ready to start evaluating various ones and their capabilities. My questions are;

1) Is there a PDM system that deals with a SW part having multiple configurations or will we have to break out each part into a separate part file?
2)If PDM’s can deal with multiple configurations, what is a good number of configurations without considering it overkill (example: we have a base part that has 20,000 configurations. The file size is 500Mg and it takes forever to load)?

We are trying to be proactive the forthcoming change and would like a heads up on how we should be creating our parts library

Thanks in advance

 

[Standing]

darnell,
We use PDM/Works from SolidWorks and are creating configurations. We keep it very simple. About 12 configurations max per part. Not a rule just happens that way for us. We stay away from making assembly configurations. We do not do configurations of configurations. When we were setting up our vault our VAR told us that configurations of configurations is not a good idea.

Bradley

 

[RawheadRex]

Darnell,

I have experience with both PDMWorks and SmarTeam.

To really answer the question I will make the assumption that you're referring to using configurations within files to handle/define unique part numbers. E.g. a SW model of a screw that has multiple configurations in the part file which define different lengths used in your company's product(s) where each configuration represents a unique part number in your inventory tracking/MRP/ERP system.

Using this assumption, I can and will say that a package like PDMWorks is limited in its ability to handle configurations as unique part numbers. In fact its developers (now SolidWorks Corp.) acknowledge this as a limitation of the software. However that is not to say that people haven't devised systems of using it in such a manner.

SmarTeam on the other hand goes a bit farther in its core functionality. I have personally setup standard parts libraries under this software using configurations. It easily handled parts containing around two dozen individual configurations representing unique PNs in the company's system. I imagine theoretically the limitation in that system lies solely with the complexity and size of a given SW file.

Hope this helps,


Chris Gervais
Sr. Mechanical Designer
Lytron Corp.

 

[NathanN]

Bradley,

Could you explain what you mean by 'configurations of configurations'? Also, I don't see what the difference is between a part file with configs and an assembly with configs. Surely if you can have one, then you can have the other.

 

[Standing]

NathanN,
What I mean by configuration of configurations is that one makes a configuration of an assembly. Then they use that assembly in another assembly, at the same time making another configuration in the new assembly. Then this can go on and on. I hope this makes things more clear.


Bradley

 

[drawoh]

RawheadRex,

Have you set up SmarTeam to create a profile card for each configuration, or just for each file?

I do not see why PDM software should be aware of configurations. If I check in a drawing, PDF should generate a file tree so that I can check it out again with a working model attached.

The problem with configurations is that a given configuration may be a different part or assembly, or it may be an assembly step, or an alternate shape of a flexible part. If PDM leaves that definition to me, I will make the assembly drawings, parts lists and fabrication drawings work.

I am working with a SmarTeam installation that registers a profile card for each configuration, and I am frustrated. I have limited control over the configurations of my models. The icons in the assembly tree may or may not point to the right filename of the configuration.

If this were my call, I would ban the acronym PDM and replace it with DM, for Document Management. That way, everyone would understand that we are managing documents, and not controlling everyone's work, or re-organizing production.

JHG

 

[RawheadRex]

drawoh,

Yes, I had SmarTeam setup to create profile cards for individual configs. I haven't worked at that company for sometime now but I know that there is a way to setup SmarTeam to ignore configurations that are identified in a specific manner. As I recall it had something to do with a setting up a certain character mask for the suffix or prefix (I can't remember which...it might even be an either/or situation) of the configuration name. S/T tech support will be able to help you with this (that's how I accomplished it) as it's a standard feature of the software.

To comment on your last statement, DM already exists. Actually PDM and DM (document management) are two similar yet different animals. DM doesn't really manage revisions and Solid Models in a useful manner. Before implementing SmarTeam I was forced to sit through a dog and pony show put on by a company trying to sell us DM software and left the thing with a migraine headache thanks to trying to figure out how the hell to make this particular software manage SW files in a useful manner. There's no point to my statements other than as an anecdote.

Hope that info on managing configs in S/T was useful.



Chris Gervais
Sr. Mechanical Designer
Lytron Corp.

 

[JNR]

We also use SmartTeam. It has dual functionallity in SW configurations. It is really intended for multiple part numbers with multiple configurations of each, but you culd ue that for any logically similar purpose. You use a different profile card for each part number and the sub-configurations go along with them.

The way it functions is by using a two part SW config name. The first section designates is as an unique part number. The second second is in parenthases and designates mutlipe configurations of the same part number:

Example:

-001, -001 (expl), -001 (frys) would all be configs of the same part number
-002 (bean), -002 (frys), -002 (cops), -002 (dave) would all be of a different part nuumber.

In the early days you were very restricted in number of characters, but that has gone away now.

I would say the SmarTeam is much more complex and comprehensive - being really EDM rather than just PDM. So it is going to take more budget to buy, install and maintain. Thus it depends on your needs.

3/4 of all the Spam produced goes to Hawaii - shame that's not true of SPAM also.......

 

[DanielGraham]

One big limitation (might have been mentioned i did not read everything) is that PDM works can not control revisions per configuration. In other words if you have a part that has 10 configs and you want to bump the rev of one config...all configs get the revision bump.

Daniel

 

[drawoh]

DanielGraham,

Why is that a limitation? If I check out a file with ten configurations, how can anyone be certain that I did not modify any of the nine configurations I was not interested in?

If you have a part requiring revision control separate from all the other parts, I think it should be in its own file.

JHG

 

[ctopher]

It is a configuration of that part file, not a separate part file...thus can not be revised separately.

 

[RawheadRex]

"Why is that a limitation?"

The limitation is that if a configuration representing a unique part number in a file is under revision control then you get into scenarios where other configurations revisions' are being unnecessarily bumped. When taking into consideration the ECN process there is little doubt this can and does cause numerous headaches when one considers that each configuration could potentially be referenced in numerous places. Granted your process ought to take this software behavior into account but putting a different spin on your example how can anyone be certain that any change was made at all? The answer in my mind is that it would have to be through the ECN process however I peronally prefer the software to help me out in that regard. PDMWorks just doesn't cut it in this regard for my taste.

Applying your example in the SmarTeam environment...

-You check out a single PN from the vault (1 of 10 configs)

-Make your modifications

-Check-in the file

-Software unique identifies the file in the vault and associates it exclusively with your PN and associated Revision

If during the course of your work another configuration is modified then as far as SmarTeam is concerned no change has happened to the PN for that configuration. This is because you only checked out the single PN. IMO this behavior is preferable because the inadvertent change to another config could have painful consequences to related SW files that might not be immediately visible.

BTW I agree that judicious use of configurations representing unique PNs is very advisable in conjunction with the use of any PDM software.

Another scenario where this behavior in PDMWorks is a detriment to utilizing certain SW functionality to define product is in the application of tabulated assemblies. I would think that anyone using these in conjunction with SW configs would very much view the inability to manage revision levels of individual configurations as a significant limitation. I've no direct experience with attempting to use these in PDMWorks so perhaps a workable concept exists however I have a difficult time theorizing exactly how to pull it off effectively.

Just another two cents from me on the topic.


Chris Gervais
Sr. Mechanical Designer
Lytron Corp.

 

[bdl555]

I'm going to stir the pot quite a bit I know, but we have a solution that works for us. We use PDMWorks and we create multiple configurations of both parts and assemblies that represent unique part/assemlby numbers. We use configuration specific custom properties to "control" the revision on each configuration in a part or assembly file. We also create a separate drawing for each configuration. We do not use tabulated drawings. We don't care what revsion PDMWorks assigns to the part or assembly file, we just check to see that the custom property for the configuration matches the drawing revision level. This is currently a manual process, but we hope to have a VBA script to do this shortly.

Hope this helps.

 

[jpjamo]

Hi all,

I am a new user to the exciting world of PDMworks and administering it for a small design company (4 users)! And wow, there is a serious amount of information to digest on this site about it too.
I finally think I have a fair few of the basics sorted (revision schemes etc) but one detail I have recently come accross was a need for PDMworks to handle configurations - mainly because we have a number of products that differ only in cut length and making up seperate assemblies and parts doesn't seem right. (Isn't that what configs are for?)

bdl555 - your solution posted above seemed like the only proper solution to this problem I had seen. I then found a link to a webcast off the solidworks site (Go to

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/services/subscription/PDMWorksResources.html?pid=252

and click the link for managing configurations) This link doesn't seem to exist from the front end tech tips web page anymore so you can't navigate to it from the support pages of solidworks.com.

Basically it backs up bdl55's method as being the only one for managing configs in PDMworks.

Essentially I was wondering if anyone had come up with an better (potentially automated) method of doing this?

Cheers
James

 

[drawoh]

jpjamo,

I am on SmarTeam here. Take the case that I locate the document I want, and I observe that the 3D_model attached to it is out of date. I have the latest version of the drawing, but the model that controls the drawing has been checked out and modified.

Do I trust the drawing?

Consider the possibility that not everyone in the drawing office understands how the drawing system must work. Some new guy is told to check out drawing 1156A26B and add a hole, and he does it.

If you want two separate assembly or fabrication drawings, create two models in separate files. If a CAD model defines more than one part, tabulate the drawing. When you check out a tabulated drawing, you can look at the drawing and see everything that is going on.

Eschew obfuscation.

JHG

 

[jpjamo]

Hi drawoh,

I like your idea about tabulating the drawing as it seems like a clearer way - especially for the newbie scenario. In the table I assume you would then specify a unique part number for each config and possibly a revision for each config that is referred to in the table.

I am not sure what you mean by your first statement in regard to managing configs specifically.

Cheers
James

 

[ctopher]

I have sent in a couple Enhancement Request's for PDMW config revisions. If all of us send it in, maybe it will happen. thanks

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
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