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How improve and get ahead - Oil & Gas EPC - Mechanical Engineering 2

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romulus2009

Mechanical
May 27, 2009
19
This topic is directly related to the subject of the forum. I.E. "How to improve myself and get ahead in my work" but related to a very specific Engineering career. Namely, a Mechanical Engineer of an Oil and Gas Contractor in the EPC Industry.

More specifically, the Engineers who are responsible for the engineering of mechanical equipment in Oil and Gas projects. I dont want to make it too specific or likely there will be less people who will be able to respond. But my particular interest is in Rotating Equipment Engineering which deals with the engineering of rotating driven equipment (compressors, pumps, blowers, fans), drivers (steam turbines, gas turbines, diesel engines, electric motors etc) and auxiliaries.

My interest is to know what skills and knowledge would make a Rotating/Mechanical Engineer in the O&G EPC the best out there.

Of course, it's easy to say go learn every API Code, every ASME code, read every Textbook, every O&G Magazine, take every course from Vendors etc.

And the idea is not to become valuable in 25 years (any person with an Engineering degree should be able to make 150 grand after 25 years of experience). The idea is to push oneself and study the right things, gain the most important skills, and develop the best attitude to achieve success within 10 years.

From my personal experience, I have seen people with 2 year of experience be better at their work than people with 12 years of experience. Not every year of experience is created equal. Some people are satisfied with doing the minimum they have to do from 9 to 5 for 10 years and wonder why they are still not being given promotions or raises.

My big question is what's the best career path for a Mech Engineer. To me it seems there are 3 paths.

a) 80% category. Those who become Senior Engineers and Supervisors and do the same thing for 30 years and top out at say 120K.
b) 2% cateogry. Those who become the technical references within large companies, and within the industry in general. The "gurus" who become so invaluable for what they know that they get paid over 150K. These people often times have PhDs.
c) 18% category. Those who move up into Management or become Consultants.

Yes, I made those stats up. It's just to give an idea.

I love technical subjects and the idea of somebody becoming a master at ones profession through many years of experience. However, I believe unless you do radically different things, after the 10 year mark whether you have 10 years, 20 years or 30 years of experience it doesnt make a difference unless you show some sort of progress in titles and responsibilities. Also, with technology advancing exponentially, with age it become harder to keep up with the advancements and people fresh out of college are likely to be ahead of you. The only thing that will give you the edge is the knowledge and experience gained in all those years. But as I said, it's very important to keep up with new tools, new developments and most importantly, to never reach a plateau of knowledge and experience. To do so, you can either try to engage in work in different areas, or deepen the knowledge of the areas you are already familiar with. But more than likely, there is a limit on how much you need to know about a compressor to be a good EPC engineer. You'll probably be more valuable knowing more about say Static Equipment than being a Compressor guru alone.

Looking forward to your thoughts,

Regards,
Romulus
 
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Go get a Petroleum Engineering degree and start out at 100k right out of college
 
I will be surprised if you get very many meaningful replies. Those of us who have paid the dues and are at or approaching that 25 year mark may be reluctant to believe that there is a good 10-year short-cut to achieve the same ends.

I have been a rotating machinery reliability engineer in an oil refinery for over 20 years. I didn't recognize the acronym you used (EPC) and had to go look it up. You will get better results if you limit the use of TLA's (three letter acronyms).

It is probably more difficult to get good at rotating machinery engineering and installation than it is to get good at rotating machinery reliability. Working in reliability, we get to see the results of our decisions. Working on new construction projects, I suspect that there is less opportunity to learn from your mistakes. If I really wanted to become an expert in engineering and construction of rotating machinery, I would consider the following:

Spend a few years working in a machinery reliability group in an oil refinery. An oil refinery is going to have the greatest variety of rotating machinery types as compared to chemical plants, power plants, pipeline operations, etc. Working on machinery reliability is good for seeing the results of good and poor engineering and construction efforts. Spend some time analyzing machines with poor reliability; “Bad Actors.” In many of these cases, you will find that the root problem was poor selection of the machinery, poor design elements, poorly designed or instrumented support systems, poor installation practices, etc. You will also learn the affect of design and construction practices on operability and maintainability as well as reliability. A bad project will curse the refinery reliability engineers for decades. Once it is built, it is very difficult to correct a fundamental mistake. You will learn to recognize the difference between a good piping job and a poor piping job; straight runs at the pump suction and discharge, supports that direct thermal growth away from the pump rather than toward it, block valves and flanges located to allow for easy removal and installation of the pump or installation and removal of blinds. Learn vibration analysis. You will begin to understand the affects of different bearing arrangements, lubrication methods, shaft stiffness, coupling types, etc. You will see the dilemma of pumps built with too little Net Positive Suction Head, too high suction specific speed and too much suction energy. You will begin to understand the value of building in additional elevation head by raising vessels a little bit higher. These are problems that cannot be corrected once the unit is built. You will learn that material selection cannot be done well by reading a line on a table. The chart may tell you that 316 SS is just fine in 70 °F, 98% Sulfuric Acid. But, experience will tell you that you better step up to Alloy 20 for the pump case if you want it to last more than a couple of years.

Beyond that, I would suggest getting a good working relationship with some old, crusty engineers who put in the 30 plus years and had time to make some mistakes and learn from them. Work with one of these old guys as his assistant making less money than you deserve for a few years. Volunteer for some night shifts so you can watch and learn when the real work gets done and there are no managers and accountants looking over your shoulder.


Johnny Pellin
 
Thanx for the response JJPellin. Notice thought that I did not say that those with 25 years of experience are any less than someone with 10. All I said was that IMO, not every year of experience is created equal.

We are looking to hire right now, and we have some guy with 18 years of experience in Chinese companies that we never heard of, another who has 10 years experience, and some 14 years of higher education, but only a few years of relevant experience useful to us. To us, on paper, both of these candidates are worth less than someone with the type of experience that we need (executive project EPC experience) even if their total experience is 5 years. We also have someone who applied who has 30 years of experience as a reliability engineer. This CV has also been put away (but kept in a stack labeled "site").

Your points are valid though. A good rotating machinery engineer should know all aspects of the subject. From design and analysis, to specification, selection and installation, to maintenance, reliability and troubleshooting. Of course, that's not how it usually works. OEM engineers design impeller blades and run CFD code all their lives and have no clue what an API Plan 53B is. EPC engineers look at specs, data sheets, norms and codes all their lives and probably dont remember how to derive the equation for calculating the power of a compressor or the exit quality of a steam turbine. And finally, a reliability engineer would be able to look at a machine and tell you all about it and fix any issues in the field, and likely be the most well rounded rotating machinery engineers since they most likely see all kinds of drawings and P&IDs on a regular basis AND deal with real problems under pressure, but they are probably out of touch with design, selection and specification.

I guess the perfect candidate would have a little experience in all three paths, but I think it's rare. Some might move from OEM to EPC, or to field work, but I doubt many people have experience in all 3.

But I have heard before people say that site/field experience and "getting your hands dirty" is beneficial to just about any "office engineer" at some point in their careers.

Romulus
 
From the list of things you presented you would find a happy life in power generation. Power tends to pay well and has good long-term security, with the added advanatge that it can't realistically be offshored to China. Just a thought.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 
Thanx for the input Scotty.

Would Oil and Gas experience easily be transferable and valuable to power generation?

Depending on the project, typically Rotating Equipment Engineers in Oil and Gas get to oversee a great variety of equipment. The largest variety is found in refinery projects. I'd assume that for power generation an O&G machinery guy would have to specialize in turbomachinery and engines, possibly also with exposure to generators and large electric motors.

Romulus
 
A big variety of pumps, from huge main circ and condensate pumps to, well, huge HP feedwater pumps. Fans, compressors, gearboxes, etc, etc. Don't underestimate how much variety there is in a big power plant, especially a coal plant or a nuke.

I moved from power to O&G and frankly I am still looking for all the "big motors" and the "big turbines" on site - so far I've only found little ones [wink] - and the whole process just seems so much simpler and the environment is less pressured than the power plant. I'd move back to power in a heartbeat - I miss the urgency, and the smell of steam and hot lube oil - but I'm enjoying what I'm doing too.

O&G would definitely be transferrable, certainly on the mechanical side. Most of the electrical guys would find a transfer reasonably easy too, although most refineries don't have the need for specialists in electrical machines.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 
Romulus,
What exactly is your interest? Are these questions for your own career path or to help you evaluate prospective candidates? If the latter, I would not get too excited about finding an EPC (engineering, procurement and construction) specialist rotating equipment engineer.

EPC is a relatively new phenomenon and most good guys around (having a minimum of 15 years experience usually have a blend of experience with manufacturers, design consultants and operating companies, often with military experience as well. In my experience the really good guys start with the manufacturers, spend a lot of time in the field commissioning and trouble-shooting, often being poached by the operator.

The main short-coming in the EPC scenario is the EPC contractors are invariably driven to the cheapest products, based on specifications developed prior to EPC bidding. Owner's engineers often have more input on specifications and selection than the EPC engineer, and EPC engineers rarely are around long enough to witness start-up.
 
off topic..

i've been with O&G EPC onshore since I graduated from college like almost 10 years ago.
i have designed miles and miles of piperack.
i dont have building nor bridge experience.
i only have few months transmission and distribution experience.

O&G sucks right now.. no jobs.. i heard bechtel is hiring.. anyone else know any opening for civil/structural onshore?
 
Both Bill.

I partially agree with what you say. Indeed, manufacturing and field experience help tremendously an "office" engineer. It gives them a better perspective and understanding. However, in the end to be an EPC engineer you need EPC experience primarily. The candidates we are interviewing at this point have little or no EPC experience but perhaps lots of OEM or Owner/Operator experience. This type of experience is useful to enable an engineer to be more well rounded and have a better understanding, but EPC job requires EPC experience and skills.

Also, OEM engineers might end up focusing on particular equipment while EPC job requires a broader knowledge. But yeah someone with all 3 types of experience is probably the best.

Romulus
 
It sounds like you are being pretty picky looking for a candidate. EPC is pretty easy, you will find most engineers are pretty quick on the uptake so it shouldn't be a problem for them to grasp. Look for people with skills other than already at your company so the business can grow.
 
westheimer,

you are right on the money my friend. O&G is horrific, all I hear from recruiters right now is how flooded they are with "fabulously qualified" applicants. 30 to 50 applicants per job - sometimes more I was told. For an oil major job it is in the hundreds for a highly specialized spot. thousands of applicants for a more general "project engineer" listing.

I actually say an ad yesterday for a *staff engineer* at an oil services firm REQUIRING a PhD in Mechanical Engineering and 15 years of offshore experience.

stay away from o&g market... far far away. Me and my wife have enough saving to get us by for quite some time, but at the first opportunity we are leaving houston and never coming back.
 
Last year at this time I was working in New Orleans, building skids for O&G. Now I'm out of work, and the EPC guys who were buying skids are worried, or gone.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
I'm at my 3rd O&G company since late 2008. The first one went under, the second one almost went under (survived with heavy layoffs), but this last one is thriving. We're small but have enough work to stay busy. Most of the people that got laid off are back to work at various places locally and only a handful relocated. When I was out of work I was dead set on going international, but got another job before I was able to pursue it. Are there any more business opportunities for someone willing to go anywhere? It seems like the companies are just huge and it's hard to get through the front lines of their hiring process.

Where would someone go who was a mechanical in Gas processing facilities and pipelines who wanted out of O&G? Power generation, maybe air pollution control, water treatment?
-Nate
 
It can be difficult to help employers understand this, but:

bolts is bolts.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
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