How much notice?

[DeeLeigh]

Hi, all-

I'm a structural EIT who works for a small consulting firm in the US. I'm planning to either quit or take a leave of absence to attend graduate school in the fall.

I started out at the firm as a drafter 8 years ago, earned my engineering degree while working full time, and was promoted to design engineer and then associate. However, becoming a partner in this firm, or even continuing to work here long-term, is not a pretty thought. The company is badly managed and full of politics and personality conflicts. No matter how successful I became in this firm, I'd never enjoy working here, and because of that I'd never be able to do the best work I'm capable of. I'd prefer to find another job after finishing my degree.

I applied to two schools. I already know that I was accepted at one, and I'll find out about the other within a week or so. I've arranged financing and am definitely planning to go to school full time out of town in the fall.

Now I'm wondering, how much notice should I give, and should I resign or take a leave of absence?

I could give them notice right now, I could wait until I've decided which school to attend, or I could tell them exactly two months or any lesser exact amount of time in advance. I don't think they'll need to replace me right away, as things are a little slow right now. However, I'd hate to leave them hanging until the last minute. They already know that I was looking into graduate programs.

If I resign, I lose my health insurance, but I may also lose it if I take unpaid leave. I don't want to misrepresent my intentions, and it may be possible to get it at low cost through the school I attend. Chances are, during the year that I'm working on my M.Eng., I won't even need to see a doctor (I have no chronic health problems).

But, I also wonder if I'd be willing to return to this job if I'm unable to find another, better one. I'd really rather not, but who knows what the economy will be like in a year? The company does have some good points: we get some interesting projects and the office is very close to where I live. Perhaps I shouldn't burn any bridges. But, maybe I shouldn't give myself any excuse at all to return to a temptingly convenient office where I'm miserable. I have to say that it would feel really, really good to resign (politely, of course. They still need to sign off on my work experience when I'm ready to take the PE, and SE is a small, small world around here).

Any advice?

 

[RDK]

I don’t think that it matters if you take a leave of absence or resign. If you want to come back after grad school and they want you back then you will be back. If they don’t want you back then all they have to say is no work available now.

I would give as much notice as you have. Even after grad school you will need them for a reference and better to leave on good terms than bad. The risk is that they will lay you off before you are ready to quit to protect those who are staying if work is slow now.

I’d tell them informally that you have decided to go back to school and leave the formal notice until you know your plans and have a firm final work date in mind.

Also leave any on going projects in a manner that someone else can take over them. Make lots of notes to files so they can finish up any unfinished work. Be available for some phone calls with questions to help after you leave.

Moving on is a fact of life and common in engineering. If you are honest and professional about it there should be no hard feelings or burnt bridges.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[sc]

Why not go out on good terms and advise them of what you are doing and why, then offer to work for them on a part time basis where-ever possible.

This would depend on the time you have available of course. It will help to maintain a steady employment record and may even help you to become more involved in rectifying the wrongs of the company when you finish.

Your pointing out where you believe things are going wrong for you and the company may be a nudge in the right direction for the company, sometimes partners forget to stop and see how things are really going. At the worst they will support your decision to leave.

Your time to leave is pretty well set by the start date of the course.

regards
sc

 

[GregLocock]

"offer to work for them on a part time basis where-ever possible"

That is a cunning plan. I have /always/ kept my bosses aware of my career plans, and only once burned a bridge. This has paid off in spades recently, I was asked back to work on contract at my old department, and one way or another have parlayed that into an excellent full-time position in the same company, where I am learning new stuff.

Interesting that we three colonials ignore the healthcare issue, since we have that nasty old socialised medical system to fall back on!

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[brad]

I can't resist the joke by a Canadian comedian:
"My American friend got sick and was in the hospital without insurance. By the time he got out, he had to file for bankruptcy because his bills were so high. In Canada with socialized medicine, this wouldn't have happened; he would've just died".

By to keep on topic--
I would agree with the advice to give them informal notice about your intention now (even if you merely say "I think I'm going to do this . . .&quot. As the event comes closer, be more unequivocal and finally give the standard formal notice. I took this approach at my last job, and left with much goodwill.

Of course, if your boss is a creep who you know will can you when you give an informal notice, ignore my advice. If you think they will treat you honorably when given notice of your intent, then you treat them honorably and give them that notice. If not, don't (other than the professional two week minimum).

Brad

 

[sc]

Don't know how long free health care will last if little Johnny has his merry way.

As for the part time work it has the added advantage that you already know the office systems and politics, whilst you may not agree with them all, you do not have the added stress of trying to fit into some one elses system.


sc

 

[GregLocock]

Yes, I was thinking that it is a good way of staying current, and beats getting a McJob for pin money.

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[TheTick]

Keep your notice as short as possible within reason. try as they might, your management and coworkers are human. I have seen many folks get really dumped on as soon as word gets out that they are leaving.

Leave as amicably as possible, no matter how you may feel (though it sounds as if you are on good terms). It's a big world, but we move in small circles. You WILL see some of those folks again.

Realistically-minded employers should be at peace with the fact that employees are people, and people grow and change and move on to other things.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open hearted.

 

[Maui]

You've apparently had a good career in this company, although it does have its bad points. I wouldn't burn this bridge. If your associates are reasonable people, they will understand your intentions and you will be able to leave on amicable terms. If this is in fact the case, then I would suggest that you do not leave them in a bind. Wrap up any ongoing projects if possible. And the ones that you can't complete should be left in such a state that a co-worker is able to take them over without too much difficulty. In terms of notice, I would provide them with what you feel is a reasonble length of time. It sounds as though they will not need to replace you right away, so anywhere from two weeks to a month should be sufficient.

It is best to leave on good terms, but that does not always depend upon you alone. It also depends on the reaction of your bosses. If you are dealing with unreasonable associates, then that makes matters more complicated. I have seen examples where a co-worker provided notice, and was escorted out of the facility under guard the same day. If you are dealing with this type of environment, then I would not provide them with any notice or knowledge of your intentions until the last possible moment. Keep in mind that whatever type of working environment you are currently in, you will need references from these people to land your next job. So choose your parting words carefully.

In terms of health insurance, your school should be able to provide you with adequate coverage. If you will be attending a shool that has a medical program, beware that the doctors you will see will actually be first or second year residents. And you will be one of the patients they practice on to gain experience.

Will you return to your current employer after graduation? It seems clear that you would prefer not to. I suspect that by making appropriate contacts through your school and faculty, you won't need to. It's always an internal struggle to leave the hell that you're familiar with to venture into the unknown where anything can (and usually does) happen. Life will not become better without the courage to make changes. And it appears that you have that courage. Good luck.


Maui

 

[pennpoint]

DeeLeigh;
May I offer this advice. Read all the above and see the consensus and take that road and do not hold a gruge for the master you slave for today. Leave him with good notice and revel when he calls upon you again. You are good and you know it. Go on with your way! You will find support and good health.

 

[corus]

I've no idea what the laws are in the US but normally both you and your employer are required to give a minimum notice of termination of your contract of employment, a period of which was agreed in your contract. Strictly speaking you do not have to work this period of notice though your ex employer could take legal action if you left immediately. Few do however. I would give the minimum notice and leave as soon as possible. Thoughts of loyalty to companies is a mistake in my experience as when times are rough companies will dump you without a moment's hesitation. Your reasons for leaving are valid and are obviously meant to better your future career. This shouldn't jeapordise any references from your employer though your employer should be wary of references you give about them as companies do get reputations out on the street. If you did go back to that company after graduation then you should go and see a doctor, though I'm not sure if that's covered under american health insurance.

 

[DeeLeigh]

Well, I've given informal notice. Probably the biggest thing that the guys I work for have going for them is that they offer good job security. They aren't sleazy or dishonest, they're just poor at picking out and managing employees. I didn't think they'd fire someone who had announced they'd be leaving for school, so I let them know about it two months in advance, and there's been no sign of trouble. We didn't talk about my returning after finishing the degree. I think it was understood that I didn't intend to.

I don't have a contract, but I believe that employment in the US is "at will," meaning that theoretically, I can leave with no notice and they can fire me with no notice. However, it's considered very rude to give less than two weeks notice and it can endanger your reference.

I got accepted at both schools I applied to. Now, I have to decide between Michigan Tech and the University of Toronto (where I can be an international student four hours from home. I'm leaning toward Toronto. It looks as if they have a good program, and frankly I'd rather spend winter there than in Houghton.

Thanks for your excellent comments and advice. It was very helpful to get some different perspectives on the situation. Now, I'm just finishing up my projects, documenting the things I've taken care of while here (the computer systems), and looking forward to leaving this firm behind!

 

[brad]

Unless you're a ski-bunny, Toronto whips Houghton for fun
Brad

 

[PSE]

While I do enjoy visiting the U.P. (outside of Black Fly season) Brad's right when it comes to overall recreational opportunities for your "down time". If you do go to Toronto, just make sure that the degree and education will be accepted as acredited back in the states.

You did fine with your notice. I have generally given the "traditional" 2 weeks. In one case however, my new employer wondered if I could start sooner than I had originally stated. I went back to my current employer at the time and asked them if it was OK to leave after one week. As long as open communication takes place, I have not encountered any difficulties with giving or changing notice. If a company decides to burn a bridge after you have crossed it, there is not a lot you can do about it anyway.

Good luck with school

 

[DeeLeigh]

Yes, I was thinking that Toronto would be more fun and will probably go there.

Accreditation shouldn't matter, since I already have an accredited bachelor's. I'm really getting my master's to learn more about structural engineering.

 

[ornerynorsk]

You probably have an idea in mind about how much fallout you're going to get from the higher-ups, and that should determine how much notice. From what it sounds like, the less notice the better. I would personally give about 30 seconds notice after I've gotten my personal things safely off site, but that's just me LOL .

 

[RDK]

That’s a good point. You may want to move all your personal items as you can or at least as many as possible without attracting attention to the fact. Look around your office and you will be surprised how much personal stuff you can bring into an office.

Some employers will rather pay the two week notice period than have you in the office after giving notice. In that case you could find yourself escorted off the premises right after giving the notice. Better not to have any personal items left behind that could get lost or packaged by some security type after you are on the street. Based on how others have been treated after they gave notice you will have a better feel for this.

I saw my last layoff coming and removed all my personal items from my office before the actual layoff. That way I had only to drop off my keys and pick up my jacket. While my employer would not have given me a hard time about it, it did make things easier for everyone.


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[DeeLeigh]

I already pared the personal stuff in my cube down to what I can carry out easily. I've cleaned up my computer, too. All that's left on it (other than work related files, of course) is my resume, some grad school information, and the plans for my house.

I work for a small company, not the kind of place where they fire you and escort you out of the building. Anyway, I'm root on the server, I built the office computer network, and I can access it from home. They might consider that kind of move risky. I have a feeling that it's going to be a nice, peaceful summer and that I'll be leaving exactly when I told them I would be.

 

[ANTHAE]

USER ASSUMES ALL LIABILITY FOR USE OF THESE OBSERVATIONS

If you have worked for your employer for 8 years, and gone
from draftsperson to EIT, then you are well within your
rights to ask for educational assistance and unpaid leave
while you get your act together for a year. An MS/MA will
certainly improve your hiring potential, as will that PE.
Then a year from now, you're still available to them, and
can ask for a raise commensurate with your education and
experience with the company. If it doesn't click, if you
aren't happy, look around. It's 1000% easier to get a job
if you already have one. Then give them two weeks' notice.

USER ASSUMES ALL LIABILITY FOR USE OF THESE OBSERVATIONS

 

[DeeLeigh]

That makes a lot of sense, and under some circumstances that would be the best thing to do. Unfortunately, my company makes employees sign an agreement to stay for a few years after graduation in exchange for help with tuition. It may be easier to find a job when you already have one rather than when you're unemployed, but finishing a degree is also a good jumping off point.