How much study time for the SE I? 8

[Lion06]

I'm going to be taking the SE I in October (I did debate whether to take it now or wait for the 16 hour test in April).

I'm trying to get a sense of how much study time other people have put in, and, after they passed, how much they feel was really necessary.

I've never been able to study (I never learned how). Somehow I made it through college and halfway through my current grad school program. I've gotten away with paying attention in class, taking good notes, and understanding the concepts and prinicples such that my lack of studying has never hurt me.

With all of that said, I want to make sure that I prepare appropriately for the exam. I know I need to familiarize myself with AASHTO - are there any specific sections I should pay attention to?

As far as steel, concrete, wood, masonry, and analysis are concernced......... I feel very comfortable with minimal time put into these areas. I work with these daily and really would just like to get a sense of what types of questions to expect. I suspect the bulk of my "study" time in these areas will be spent tabbing additional portions of relevant standards.

A place where I could stand to put extra time in is wind loads. I routinely determine wind pressures, but I've honestly never done (by hand) the whole host of torsional wind load cases on a building. I'm guessing this is something that is not on the test given the time constraints - is that a fair statement.

Where do most people feel time is best spent preparing for the exam?

 

[SteelPE]

When I took the test, 3 months before the exam, I studied for about three hours a night four to five times per week. I had a good understand knowledge of steel, foundations and load derivation (wind and seismic) I had a decent amount of knowledge in masonry but my knowledge in concrete, wood or bridges was lacking. I spent most of my time going through problems and creating “cheat sheets” with formulas on them.

I was very efficient with my score. However, I could have been a little more efficient. I imagine if you are as proficient in all the areas you say you are then you should have no problem. I was always told that the exam was prepped so that any practicing engineer should be capable of passing the exam. Maybe you should pull out the sample exam and see how well you do with the questions.

What made you change your mind with regards to taking the 16 hour exam?

 

[strucguy]

StructuralEIT -

From your posts, I can say that you are a very good engineer, always paying attention to the intricacies of the codes, asking right questions, and giving due importance to the details. That is exactly the kind of attitude one needs to ace the SE-I exam. I took the exam last April and managed to clear it the first time. I prepared for two months and most of the preparation time was during weekends. I used lunch time at work to solve as many problems as I could which helped me greatly in improving my speed.

SERM is a great resource. Also, structural portion of CERM by Lindeburg and the examples booklet are of great use. Your motive should be to solve as many problems as you can, and improve your knowlege and speed as you move forward in your preparation. AISC's Design examples are another great resource. Masonry, Bridge and wood design is what I found very challenging. These are the areas that I realised could make or break the deal. I familiarized myself with basic design principles and code provisions to the best of my ability. That helped a bit. But, since you have time, try solving all the problems from the NDS example booklet and MDG. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have more specific questions.

Good Luck!

 

[Lion06]

SteelPE-
The biggest reason I decided to take the exam now is that I really just want to get licensed asap. I know I'll end up taking the 16 hour exam within the next year or two, but it's of no great importance at this particular time given that PA has no real restrictions that would require me to have the SE II right now. I feel like having the PE makes me marketable for the time being and I'll sit for the 16 hour exam when I know I have more time.


StrucGuy-
Is the NDS example booklet that you're referencing the one that comes with the NDS set? I have it, but have never looked at it. I'll definitely do that. Is there any specific portions of AASHTO you would recommend getting familiar with?

 

[SteelPE]

A little off topic.

I understand your urgency in this economy. The problem that I am facing at the moment is what to do. I currently have licenses in two states. With this new test coming along I’m not sure if I should run out and get a bunch of additional licenses. I have yet to hear an explanation on what would happen to my current licenses if I took the new test and failed? That would be a huge fiasco.

 

[slickdeals]

Here are my $0.02
Here are the materials I used. I took the exam in April 2010 and passed in the first attempt.

Start with SERM (Williams) to go over all the topics. I think he covers the topics well. Once I look at a topic, I go into the code and study the code completely. It is very important to understand and apply code provisions in the exam. IN order to be able to do this, you should read code provisions and think how the examiner can ask questions regarding that particular application. Every test taker has a different study methodology. But I did not do any sample problems till the last month. Familiarize yourself with the various topics first. DO NOT START TABBING RIGHT FROM DAY 1. Understand the material and know where to find it rather than tabbing every page you study. It is really easy to go overboard with TABBING.

Try to study everyday, even if it is only for an hour or so. Try to study more on the weekends. I prepared for about 3 months (February was a little difficult with the wife's pregnancy and stuff). I think 20 hours a week over 12 weeks should be good. Again, you are already familiar with many topics. So I suggest you spend the first few weeks going over stuff that you have no prior experience.

I cannot emphasize how important AASHTO and bridge stuff is. Download the latest revisions from PPI's website for the changes in AASHTO. It is a free download from here.

http://ppi2pass.com/STRM_Code_Update_Design_of_Bridges.pdf

Make sure you have the latest AASHTO code and familiarize yourself with it. Make sure you go over the indexes and table of contents to give you a rough idea of what is contained in it. DO NOT SKIP AASHTO. It can mean the difference between passing and failing.

WOOD: SERM, wood textbook by Breyers (only for topics I needed more explanation), example problems from NDS.
Make sure that you tab all the tables and appendix in NDS manual so that you can look up easily. Do not OVER TAB.

MASONRY: SERM, Masonry Designers' Guide (MDG 5), Go over the commentary of ACI 530 (it is good in explanation), also look at the specifications chapter in ACI 530. Try to go over the ARMY Manual (

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/ARMYCOE/COETM/ARCHIVES/tm_5_809_3.pdf)

BRIDGE: Go over AASHTO, SERM. Most important is to understand and apply influence lines.
Download the following and understand how to use them: (

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/esc/techpubs/manual/bridgemanuals/bridge-design-aids/page/bda_9_1.pdf)

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~fanous/ce332/influence/homepage.html

CONCRETE: SERM, PCA Notes for ACI 318, MacGregor (concepts), ASSAKAF's website (

http://www.assakkaf.com/ence_454_lecture_notes.htm)

for T-Beam concepts. Very important to know the requirements in all chapters. Atleast make yourself familiar so you will remember during the exam.

STEEL: SERM, Steel Manual (13th Ed), print the design examples that came with the CD if you can.

Go over the provisions in IBC Ch 16 through 23?, ASCE 7
Understand the provisions in the SNOW and RAIN chapters since you don't use it that frequently. There are examples in the commentary of the snow chapter, familiarize yourself with those. You can print this resource (

http://www.seaw.org/documents/SEAW Snow Load Manual Supplemental Examples 2008.pdf)

I hope that gives a comprehensive review.

 

[strucguy]

Yes, that's the example booklet I am talking about. I barely have any experience in wood design. So, this example booklet help me understand on how to get the values from the NDS supplement for solving various wood design problems.

Coming to Bridge Design, I solved some of the problems in SERM and read through Sections 1 to 3 of AASHTO LRFD bridge design specs. For most of the bridge problems, I had enough time left in the exam that I managed to dig through the Manual for answers. I might have gotten lucky. But, it really helps if you are familiar with the Manual and know where to find stuff, rather than tring to flip through the million pages during the exam.

 

[jorton]

I found that the questions were either straight forward analysis or obscure code questions. I didn't have much time to study. I did spend the last few days thoroughly tabbing all of my reference books. I used a color code system to organize my many tabs. It worked for me, or I got lucky. I think it also helped to recognize that none of the questions are very deep. They are meant to be answerable in a short period of time. Don't over think them.

Concerning AASHTO, I would glance over steel composite design and seismic detailing requirements. These are easy trip points if you're not familiar with AASHTO.

 

[cms1]

SEIT,

From what I've seen of your posts/comments and questions here, I have to agree with Strucguy on your apparent capabilities.

First, I would recommend that you take an SE I practice test (Sample questions and Solutions that you can order from NCEES website). I found this to be the most useful of all prep materials that I looked at.

Then, I would suggest that if there is one particular material that you are less comfortable with, spend a little more time with the model codes for that material.

As for AASHTO, I could not get a copy until the weekend before, so I didn't get a whole lot of good studying in. I probably got the most help from the SERM for this area. But, during the test, I would scan each question before reading and if 'AASHTO' was in the question, I skipped it and came back to it later.

hope that helps

 

[KENAT]

Structural EIT. I haven't taken PE exams and definitely not structural but I've taken a lot of tests/exams as the UK education system was heavy on that, heavier than the US system seems to be.

So, on that basis, the technique that seemed to be most effective was to practice as many 'past papers' as possible. This not only gets you practicing the actual analysis etc. but gets you used to the exam style questions.

It does not necessarily make you better at the subject, but does make you better at taking the exam/test.

Maybe it's not applicable for your test, not sure how easy it is to get past papers etc., but it worked well for most of my subjects in the UK from age 14 up to when I graduated university.

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(probably not aimed specifically at you)
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[Lion06]

Thanks for all the advice. If there's one material I feel less comfortable than the others with it's probably masonry. I learned ASD in school, but prefer LRFD in practice. That makes it much like concrete design, but I'm just not as familiar with ACI 530 as I'd like to be.

It's good to hear that most questions are not very in-depth. I only say this because I was starting to worry about the timing and number of probems - thinking I needed to have a lot of short hand cheats at my ready.

 

[JKStruct]

StrlEIT - I took the SE I in October '08 (and passed). I've been following your posts here for a few years, and I don't believe you'll have any problems with it. From a technical aptitude standpoint, you're there. I think our experiences in the workplace are similar. I do commercial building design (no bridges), and I felt pretty good about analysis and design of the four materials. Nonetheless, here was my study process:

I started at the end of July. The first thing I did was take one of the two NCEES practice tests (without any studying), just to see where I was at. The NCEES practice book has the best problems to provide you a sense of technical difficulty and time, by far. I spent 8 hours on a Saturday taking it at the office, as if it were an exam. I didn't know everything, but I did fairly well (maybe 65% correct without studying, give or take). I had a 3-month study schedule (I'll try to upload it tomorrow from work), which I followed. I studied 5 or 6 days a week for a couple hours after work (or sometime during work). If I skipped a day or two in the week to watch football and drink beers, I'd do more on Saturday/Sunday. All told, I think I logged somewhere around 250 hours in that timeframe. Most of that time was spent reading/reviewing the design manuals and ASCE 7 (make sure you tab them... you'll need to find stuff quickly). I spent some time reviewing analysis methods (e.g. portal method, conjugate beam, MoS, MoJ, virtual work, moment distribution); those are good to know, but remember you only have about 6 minutes to solve each problem, so I didn't get bogged down with practicing complicated analysis problems. I went through the SERM cover to cover, and did all of the problems. That book is great, and I used it extensively on the test. Solving problems is the best way to study (plus it's the most fun)... I did all of the 6 min solutions book. The book is littered with errors, but the problems are okay (some are harder or more involved than the exam, as I recall). And bridges... I went through the AASHTO and tabbed important chapters or tables with factors and so forth. 20% of the test is bridges, but a good chunk of those can be solved with just an understanding of structural analysis. I spent about 2 weeks studying bridge stuff. To this day, though, I still don't think I'd be able to design a bridge correctly. I only really did ASD for masonry and timber, but I knew LRFD. I only did strength design for steel and (obviously) concrete.

One week before the test, I took the second practice test (again in 8 hours at the office). I did considerably better. I felt prepared going in, and I felt confident afterwards (although I never told anyone until the score came back). I actually remember thinking what would have happened if I just took it cold. But I'd rather put in the time in advance and only take the thing once.
On the test, I went through each session first answering all the questions that were easy -- either a quick code look up, or one calculation.... stuff that can be done in under a minute. then I went back through and solved the ones that were more involved. i finished the morning in time, and in the afternoon I remember having 30 or 40 minutes to check over work.

In summary:
- Work problems more than anything during study time
- Tab your manuals liberally
- I made a 3-ring binder of study materials... photocopied important tables, section properties of shapes, my notes, and I had a two-page "summary" sheet at the front of each section for each material. I put fundamental stuff on there. I really don't think I used it all that much, because once I wrote it down on the sheet, a lot was committed to memory. But it was still a good resource, and I still use it in practice.
- Buy the scientific calculator you have to use for the test before you start studying, and use it exclusively until after the test
- Watch your units (I remember having some stupid "12-errors" and place value problems during practice problems because I would type in stuff on the one-line screen without writing it down to save time).
- If an answer doesn't "look right" from your work experiences, you probably screwed up
- Don't worry too much about bridge stuff -- just read the SERM chapter and go through the AASHTO.
- Don't drink the night before the test.
- Do drink the night after the test.

That's all I got... good luck! (I'm interested to see what happens w/ your screename in Janurary)

 

[Lion06]

JK-

Thanks for the input. In your opinion, what are the most important AASHTO sections to look at and tab?

 

[Lion06]

I meant to ask this, too. I'm assuming that the NDS, ACI 318, AISC 360-05, ACI 530, and AASHTO are must-haves for the test. Are there any other resources that are good to have? Fo example, in a masonry design question, would they give you the S value for 8" block grouted at 32" o.c. or should I have the TEK notes that provide this information?

 

[slickdeals]

Chapters 3,4,5 and 6 in AASHTO are important, probably 3 and 4 more than others. Take the index and put in the front of the binder.

Yes, having all the right codes is important. You may not necessarily use all of them, but you don't want to kick yourself 'cos it might just be a very simple code lookup.

I would print the TEK notes for the masonry section properties. Chances are that you would be given most of the information you need. It will just be a matter of understanding it and applying it right.

 

[strucguy]

Also,the civil engineering reference manual (CERM) by Lindeburg has some pretty good design aids for Concrete and Masonry design at the end of the book. You might want to check that out.

 

[HgTX]

Given that the new test is supposed to have separate building & bridge tracks, does any one know of bridge study material?

Hg

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[abusementpark]

Is PA one of those states that requires an S.E. to practice structural engineering?

 

[Lion06]

abusementpark-

Not yet.

 

[abusementpark]

Are there some officials within the PA state licensing board that are planning to make it a requirement?