How Relevant is Graduate School Experience for a Position in Industry? 6

[UconnMaterials]

I have a year left in my Materials Engineering PhD program. Recently, I started looking for a job after graduation. Fundamental research doesn't appeal to me; I would rather be doing design and development type work or materials support jobs such as failure analysis. I had 2+ years of experience in industry before going back to graduate school, and that's the place I would rather be.

I talked to a recruiter the other day, and he said that my graduate schoolwork wouldn't count towards experience for a job unless it's in research. He said I was slightly above entry level. To me that was bogus. Many things that I do in graduate school are industry relevant such as FEA work, mechanical testing, failure analysis, and instrument operation/repair. Heck I've even did some NDT type work briefly. I work 100x harder in graduate school than I ever did in industry, and with no one looking over my shoulder telling me to work faster. Aren't the transferable skills that are learned in graduate school important?

Generally, how do companies view graduate school experience? Thanks for any input.

Uconnmaterials

 

[FeX32]

This is basic type 3 physiology.

My opinion was always that no-one should be judged based on their background. But "thrash" and be equally "thrashed" back at. End of story.

Kenat, I apologize if I offended you, I know you never 'thrashed'.


Fe

 

[UconnMaterials]

Big egos can be one of the most counter-productive problems when working in teams. You don't need a PhD to have a big ego. Heck I've dealt with union machinists that had big egos. The whole problem is that stereotypes can be a barrier for putting people to work.

 

[vc66]

Remember that if it were not for pure research engineers (ie. PhD's) we would not progress at all with technological advancements and you CAD designer would draw bugs bunny at work.......

Yea? I'm pretty sure that there are people who progressed science without PhDs... Edison comes to mind.

I worked in a few companies with a lot of PhDs, and unfortunately, the nickname the were often given was PhD (pretty huge dolt).

I have worked with PhDs who were geniuses, and those that I'm not sure could tie there shoes given a small distraction. It comes down to the individual.

V

 

[philmech]

Having a PhD does not necessarily give someone the ability to make great technological advancements. A PhD is only one of many tools they could use.

Some of the biggest advancements in computers were developed by college drop-outs.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Not to belabor the point any further, but...

UConnMaterials,

You asked how graduate school experience is viewed vs industry experience. I think you have your answer, that quite clearly a significant portion of our survey pool (this forum) is of the opinion that X years of graduate school experience do not necessarily equate to X years of industry experience. Rightly or wrongly, there are clearly some who feel PhDs (or, perhaps more precisely, those who choose to pursue a PhD) can be at times more difficult to work with.

But this is a generality, and good engineers know generalities only go so far. So I don't think you need to worry. If you are a hard working, productive, easy to work with person (I have no reason to believe you are not), you will be judged on those characteristics.

 

[bcd]

Just to belabor this a little more....

What the recruiter said was over-generalization and BS. Having an advanced degree is not a deterent nor does it narrow the career options if an Employer will benefit from it. For example, in the field of fracture mechanics and failure analysis, having a PhD next to your name gives you instant credibility with a jury, and this is certainly not classified as research? It is an actual industry need in which many PhD Materials experts are enjoying lucrative careers.

If I had an opening for a Materials Engineer, I'd bring you in for an interview. PhD or lower degree gives you the credentials for job qualification. What you learn and do for the Employer after you are hired is what makes your career.

 

[FeX32]

Good on the above....
OP, keep your hips high.


Fe

 

[OKPE]

Companies have fed me similar nonsense. That is just an excuse to underpay you. Find someone else to work for. A year in graduate school is worth at least a year in industry. Maybe expand on practical skills you have learned in grduate school, such as writing (your dissertaion), presentation skills and practical coursework.

 

[plasgears]

Advamced degrees make a difference in large hi-tech organizations. In GE, the unit managers had masters degrees. The PhD's wrote the comprehensive programs and did landmark analyses for general consumption. Bachelor degrees qualified you for design and other support functions. There were very few technicians; this was a stepping stone for degreed engineers.

 

[FeX32]

Glad to see some are not so narrow minded.


Fe

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

OKPE,

I might take issue with your comment that a year in grad school is worth at least a year in industry, implying that it might well be worth more than industrial experience. It is for some people, for some positions. It is not for others.

A year is what you make out of it.

 

[FeX32]

"A year is what you make out of it."

Perfect....just perfect.


Fe

 

[UconnMaterials]

I think it depends on your field. For example, if you are doing thermal barrier coating research in academia you are going to be competent in the techniques used to evaluate them in industry. The mechanical engineering and materials engineering departments at my school have some industry focused research programs.

I can see the argument against someone growing nanoparticles for his research applying for a job doing failure analysis or alloy development; however, there is still research in academia on conventional materials.

 

[moltenmetal]

I've told you what a year in academia is worth relative to a year in industry in OUR business. Looking at the salary survey stats here in Ontario, Canada, I don't think our valuation of an advanced degree is too far off the mark in terms of how engineering employers in general view the value of post-grad degrees. I think this explains the flight of PhD engineers from Canada- they naturally flow to the US where there is more opportunity for that advanced degree to be put to use. Not unexpected, given their market is 10x the size of ours.

Find that magical job that suits and makes use of your specialty- after all, that's why you went to grad school. That will give you the best chance of being paid something which makes the degree pay off for you in economic terms. Settle for a job for which Bachelors degree holders are also being considered and you're going to get less credit for that degree because it isn't necessary to the work at hand. It may be, in fact, POORER preparation for that job than an equivalent number of years in related industrial practice.

 

[spongebob007]

"Settle for a job for which Bachelors degree holders are also being considered and you're going to get less credit for that degree because it isn't necessary to the work at hand."

This is the answer to your question in a nutshell. Managers are cheap, they won't pay you a PhD salary if they have a stack of resumes from folks with a BS who are willing to work for 10K a year less. They also know that if they do hire you for that job, you will most likely be spending your time looking for something better.

As far as academic vs industry experience, I don't think there is a big difference. Regardless of where you got it, your experience only matters if a potential employer is looking for it.

I have an advanced degree, and with nearly 20 years industry experience, I would consider myself an expert in the field of structural dynamics. About four years ago I hit a low point with my job. I was so desperate to get the f--- out of there that I applied for any and every job with the title "Mechanical Engineer". I had interviewed for a position as a Senior Design Engineer at a small company. Right away I got the impression that this particualr job was pretty low-tech and before the interview was over, I made up my mind that I wasn't really interested. Well it turns out I did not get the job anyway. The hiring manager explained to me that he felt I lacked the relevant experience and that he felt there would be too much "hand holding" as he put it, to get me up to speed. This is the reality of it. Companies want turn-key employees, and years of experience are largely discounted if they are not deemed directly relevant to the job at hand. If you seek out jobs that are a match to your skill set, you will be more satisfied and better compensated financially. If you insist on trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, you will face nothing but repeated failure and frustration. It's not a matter of how the world SHOULD work, this is the reality of how it does work.

 

[plasgears]

A masters degree grad with new applicable knowledge is worth his worth in gold.

Case study - I was a sr design engr in jet engines, and a new grad with masters in fracture mechanics joined me on his initial assignment. I made use of his expertise in this technology and added it to the design for welded structures with defects. It got the attention of a lot of important people including the USAF. A lot of boats rose with this tide.

It's important to get your masters in the latest technology to make it marketable and rewarding.