How to avoid a private meeting with boss 17

[geng2016]

Dear all,

I am requested to attend a meeting in private with the one-over-one boss. I suspect this is a sort of discipline meeting. He has travelled from a remote office especially to organize this circumstance. The boss did not want to state the purpose of the meeting.
The subject boss is a violent/aggressive person who want to relief/vent on me and I really don't want to experience this; I also know this boss does not have a strong case against me and this actually makes him even more aggressive. I have nothing against attending some sort of performance review or equivalent (with weaknesses been pointed out etc.) if and when it is done properly, with evidence and record. I feel however uncomfortable and unsecure sitting with that boss in a private room. Just on gut feeling basis I would not want to do this.

What are my options ?
- refuse to attend and face the consequence (termination ?)
- request an person / representative or HR to attend together with me
- confront the boss with his own character flaw (he once told me "I am typically violent", yes this happened)
- attend and take the hit (of course writing done the complete record for any future legal action)
- activate the company compliance channel
- be sick the day of the meeting (guess it will only postpone the problem)

I am already prospecting for another job, its just that I want to leave from this company with my mental sanity as well as buy for myself some time to land a descent offer.

What would you do ?
Thanks in advance for your help

 

[zelgar]

In addition to the advice from others, I'd suggest you read and print out a copy of your workplace policies of the following and bring them to your meeting:
Workplace Harassment Policy - typically deals with sexual harassment, but may also deal with hostile work environment
Prevention of Workplace Violence
Performance Management

I'd make certain that these policies were out in the open before the meeting began, so the manager is aware that you know of the policies exist and their implications. Additionally, I would make certain that I sat closer to the door than the manager and preferable across the table from him as well.

 

[Latexman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it nearly impossible to fire someone in Europe? That's my understanding. If so, what are you worried about?

Good luck,
Latexman

To a ChE, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[berkshire]

latexman.

Whilst most of Europe is not an at will area like the USA, you can be fired for cause. Remember we only have the OPs side of the story. Generally you will be given notice or pay in lieu of notice. In Europe If a termination is in order because of misdeeds or poor performance, it is usually done by HR or the superior of your immediate boss.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[Agent666]

Have any performance issues been raised with you before?

 

[MintJulep]

Just how badly did you f*** up to get yourself into this situation?

None of the approaches that you have come up with on your own will be seen favorably by the boss. They will all only make your situation worse.

If your goal is to get fired (or have your situation become so miserable that you will quit) then carry on with the OSHA thing as the best way forward.

Otherwise man up.

Go to the meeting. Say "Boss, I know that I f***ed up pretty bad. I learned [a list of specific things] from this mistake. It won't happen again."

 

[geng2016]

Dear All,
Thank you very much for all the insights.
I decided to go to the meeting and face the problem. I also decided to confront the boss.

I decided upfront to NOT accept that the talk will be done in such a way that would affect my self esteem, yes it is subjective but I can't help it. Thus I made a whole point at the start of the meeting that the occupational health and safety practices are in force; It is a hint to a person who can reflect and reason. In short, its what you say and also how you say it.

- I stated that I am willing to accept a certain business / work pressure to get the job done, even some occasional high stress levels is something I can cope with. But I made it as a point that operating under extreme stress levels is to me an occupational safety issue (also by the way counter productive) and that I would - although respectfully- hold the employer accountable for that.

- I pointed out to the boss regarding what he told me once in the past; I said that I would like to express some concerns about it and I would appreciate if the meaning can be clarified. So yes I confronted.

- I made few points about my recent performance results which I consider (factually) to be quite okay looking at the metrics and evidence (I don't like metrics, but management plays this game always - I think). I expressed that I was a little bit surprised about the feedback received so far: In short, I stated that it would have been fair enough, to my opinion, to receive some encouragement or to the least receive positive signals but it did not happen. Actually I am not seeking for reward (I don't really care) but I wanted to set some expectations.

The boss listened, when it was time for them to make their points there was not so much to say. Meeting ended.

I think looking how company treated me - I would have opted for a different route if I would have considered it to be worth the cause, doing for example like what Mike stated. But the last couple of months have been a real professional struggle.

 

[zeusfaber]

Conversation probably going on at this moment in another forum somewhere else:

"The subject employee is a stroppy/passive-aggressive person who clearly wanted to relief/vent on me and started threatening me with Health and Safety before we'd even started the meeting. I really don't want to experience this; I didn't have a strong incentive for developing this employee to start with and this made him even more aggressive. I have nothing against attending some sort of performance review or equivalent (with some sort of willingness to accept criticism and look for ways to improve etc.) if and when it is done properly, with evidence and record. I feel however uncomfortable and unsecure sitting with that employee in a private room."

Lots of goals scored, but I fear you may have forgotten to change ends at half-time.

A.

 

[Sparweb]

Good, it sounds like you stayed in control of the meeting. A good defense is a strong offense.
You don't have to tell us what the root cause of the stress is, or what they had to say (but I'm sure everyone is dying to know!) because that's your business.

Funny how some comments were made (earlier) about European perspectives on workplace health, and that turned out to be the first card you played. From my (north american) perspective, I would have expected that to make the situation worse. To a person with an insecure sense of authority (as you have portrayed your boss) I would expect your reference to OS&H to be threatening and actually amplify their insecurity. I'm not questioning your right to do so - I'm only thinking in political terms here - and I wonder if it would have been less risky to describe the same concern for your health (and that of others) without referring to the legal framework that enforces it. Well that's a what-if game and I'll leave that for others to debate. You handled your situation professionally and can move on with your work.

STF

 

[geng2016]

There was a point in the thread regarding the use of a pocket (secret) recorder.
Where I live I doubt that this is a legal practice.

 

[zeusfaber]

as in "an offence in itself" or as in "inadmissable as evidence"?

 

[geng2016]

zeusfaber,
Good question.

I lean toward saying "as an offence in itself" but frankly I made my own web research on this and at the end this can be inaccurate.
I will investigate and post my findings if any (maybe a side subject but guess its always good to know).

 

[Panther140]

Attend the meeting and bring with you a letter of resignation.

Keep that option in your pocket. Bring an audio recorder of some sort so that you can record the escalation of events that leads up to the potential event of you resigning from your position. Play the recording back to yourself if you ever regret quitting.

It might be a short-term mistake, but the destruction of your self image and sense of self-worth is a long term problem. Unless you are getting constructive criticism that you need/deserve, that's a toxic environment. Go somewhere where you at least can view yourself as having a fair chance. Can't succeed if you don't even believe you have a fair chance.

"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin

 

[Ron]

MikeHalloran is exactly right! Listen to experience on both sides of that fence.

Dear Sir,

I recently noticed an increase of psychological stress levels at my workplace that would require immediate attention.
As an (OSHA equivalent) certified employee it is my duty to inform yourself and the company about this.

As regard to the meeting you have requested, the schedule xx xx is confirmed provided the further presence of our occupational safety officer at the meeting is warrant.

DO NOT DO THIS! It is immature,unnecessarily defensive and you actually have no duty to inform anyone of such a broad assessment for which you likely have nothing but anecdotal evidence. It will brand you as someone who is unprepared and has a defensive/responsive agenda without knowing the substance of the meeting.

If he has criticism of your performance, LISTEN. He might be right. If not, defend yourself forthrightly and calmly. If he is right and you can see it, just concede the point and let him know you appreciate the feedback and will strive to improve.

You are an employee....not a slave. You have no reason to be subserviant, but you should be respectful.

 

[geng2016]

Ron,

If the communication is delivered in a way that would effect negatively the self esteem of an employee - it becomes an issue with regard to the HSE framework in place. I have the HSE code content at my end (this was in fact my training material when I went through the certification process) and the requirement about communication is stated on paper. I assume this point has been well thought off and included for a reason by those who framed the HSE regulatory system. Employees have duties but employers too have to maintain a professional environment ; if the company wants to terminate my job because what I enforced is perceived as a threat, my answer is: go ahead.

I think Mike is right, I respect this approach. It's to me a "moral error" to pre-assume before the facts but at this particular occasion I've been broadcasting "weak-signals" coming from the behavior of this boss for a while..

I think at this occasion I went for the offensive a approach as best defense. But as far I am aware, I have not been disrespectful nor impolite; can be and will be perceived by Boss as "passive-aggressive" - so be it.

 

[tickle]

I am flabbergasted by some of the responses, but there are gems of knowledge in there (Ron, zeusfaber, MintJulep). Remember that there are always three sides to any story; employees, employers and the truth. I cannot see how the forum can provide advice without more details. All that was provided was "My boss's boss wants a meeting with me, I expect it to cover poor performance"

I would not recommend voice recorders, I would not recommend printing out the HR policies and I would definitely not recommend pulling out the WHS card. The WHS card can back fire on you as you have been operating in an unsafe environment and have not raised the issue, I am pretty sure that the company has that one tied up pretty neatly. The WHS act is not about requesting staff to complete their day job it is to cover bullying, unreasonable stress and additional duties. The alternative is "fitness for duties" and if you cannot meet those requirements for your day job then you are out of the door. Remember that "reasonableness" is subjective and as a well paid engineer, the expectations on you will not be the same as a shop assistant.

The only option (from a long term learning perspective) is to attend the meeting, listen, be respectful, acknowledge areas for improvement, ask for assistance where required. Taking notes during or immediately afterwards is a necessity. AND remember that what matters is not your perception of respect, but the boss's.

I guess at the end of the day, consider how you would want to be treated if you are the boss and had to deal with a poor performing employee.

 

[geng2016]

I am not flabbergasted as I understand there are different (and wise) views on the subject and its always difficult to illustrate a situation matching the "real word" without bias and subjectivity - although I think I tried - as its in my best interest to do so.

I am not against sitting a performance review meeting. Actually I would value any feedback.
In my former company, I was really appreciative of the performance feedback I received. When areas of improvement have been pointed out I was more than happy to receive feedback and on the overall I ranked as good professional.

However I moved to a new firm and there are some nervous people out there ; those are the ones that for example would give childish assignments to employees just to ensure everyone's comply and obey with no discussion - the added value of the assignment being virtually zero - and that is to satisfy their oversized ego. And when things do not happen according to their agenda and outcomes do not support their mental program, they get mad and do things like set up a meeting in a private room without agenda.

I have already achieved my business targets in a professional manner. I don't say its perfect but fairly I am not doing bad job. I've been in business for a while;
I think there is an unhealthy atmosphere where I work because of top down communications and management by fear. I don't like this I want to move on.

The bottom line was how to go through the meeting with minimum mental damages - I am not looking at the prospect of long term learning in this environment. But thanks for commenting and sharing anyway.

 

[tickle]

Thanks for the reply, but still some of the responses you have received, in my opinion, are unprofessional. I acknowledge that it is only my opinion and that everyone has one. I was thinking longer term than the environment at your current place of employment. You will be extremely lucky if you never come across a similar situation as this, and the practise run now may set you in good stead, even if it did not go 100% for you this time.

I would like to think that whatever the situation, there is a requirement for all parties to behave in a mature manner. Occasionally, the root problem will be communication and a misunderstanding of expectations and these are easily resolved by adult discussions.

I am unable to tell the validity of your claim that childish assignments are set. There may be wider business implications / advantages that you are not aware of. You do not know what you do not know, and to think bad of someone / something is not going to do yourself any good. In fact it may actually do harm. I am sure that your bosses and their bosses are accountable to the owners / shareholders and "childish" assignments will get questioned.

A tip for your consideration: which one seems better? "bosses set childish assignments" or "bosses set assignments that I do not understand how they add value to the business". To me the first one says, I know better than the bosses; the second one says, the bosses have not adequately explained the objective of the project. I am sure there is even better wording.

 

[kingnero]

In Belgium, it is legally allowed to audio-record any conversation or meeting, as long as the person who does the recording is physically present. (no remote devices).
No one else needs to be aware of this. The device may be hidden, you do not have to inform the other persons that they are being recorded.

With current smart phones, this greatly simplifies the process as there are several standard software applications that can do this.

But it sounds you already came out well, so... schol!

 

[KENAT]

Between slight 'English as a Second Language' issues, differences in culture, differences in legal framework and general lack of familiarity with the situation it's hard to give much insight (plus sounds like it's too late anyway).

I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the law, the terms of your contract and any related company policies & procedures etc. should this kind of situation occur again.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[geng2016]

I think the general orientations received here are very valuable (especially Mike, tickle, MintJulep) - anyway thanks to all. I learned a lot, really.