How to classify Hazard nad Commodity for this? 1

[JavorQ]

Hello,
I have problems with choosing Hazard nad Commodity class for following material:

Wooden Pallets consisting:
carton 8kg, pallet(wood) 18kg, foil 1,8kg, panels for suspended ceilings made from basalt wool (unflameable) 192kg, glue 1kg, mineral veil 4kg
pallets looks like below (but not inside racks):

Its solid-piled storage - 3 pallets top - max 4,5 storage in total.

How would you classify it?
I have choosen EH2 and commodity class III but now i have doubts. Since there is no flameable liquids it might be EH1, but there is no basalt wool in commodity tables.
Thank You in advance

 

[LCREP]

Based on your description and reviewing the photo I would say class III commodity NOT EX as per NFPA 13. You can always go with class IV commodity just in case you missed something.

 

[LCREP]

Looking at your storage again and the limited amount,
solid-piled storage - 3 pallets top - max 4,5 storage in total

can you meet this from NFPA 13, 2013 ed.

3.9.1.18* Miscellaneous Storage. Storage that does not exceed 12 ft (3.66 m) in height, is incidental to another occupancy use group, does not constitute more than 10 percent of the building area or 4000 ft2 (372 m2) of the sprinklered area, whichever is greater, does not exceed 1000 ft2 (93 m2) in one pile or area, and is separated from other storage areas by at least 25 ft (7.62 m).

If so ordinary hazard Grp 2 as per Table 13.2.1 Discharge Criteria for Miscellaneous Storage Up to 12 ft (3.7 m) in Height

 

[JavorQ]

Forgive me. I forgot to add 4,5m.. so it doesn't meet 3.9.1.18* (it refers to 12ft storage tops- i have 3 pallets 3x1,5m=4,5m)

My first approach was to use CMDA method in Chapter 14- but still i have choosen CLASS III. Would you say it is wrong or it can stay like this? Risk of fire for those panels is very small.
Its dry system so i used 30% more of design area, and reduced density according to FIG. 14.2.4.3 (nfpa13,2016 edition).

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

I would agree with LCREP and go with Class IV at a minimum.

My first edition from NFPA 13 was 1974 which was back when we had 231 for solid pile and 231c for racks and the big difference between then and now is the amount of plastics in everything we use. Today it seems I am running into plastics even when I am not looking for it.

Unless it is really obvious, metal tractor parts on wood pallets, I simply go with an ESFR system using K16.8 pendent sprinklers and let it go from there especially if the building doesn't exceed 40'. True, doesn't cover "everything" but it covers a whole lot.

Opps, just noticed it's a dry system so there goes the ESFR.

 

[JavorQ]

Sorry, but it looks like typical American approach I want to supress fire not to initiate A flood with ESFRs what a about this point: "5.6.3.3.2* A Class III commodity shall be permitted to contain a limited amount (5 percent
or less by weight of unexpanded plastic or 5 percent or less by volume of expanded plastic) of
Group A or Group B plastics"?

This is my case. Can i stay with class III and use CMDA?

 

[TravisMack]

Well, I guess the un-American approach is your choice. You do realize that CMDA is not intended to suppress but only control. That is why they are called CONTROL Mode Density Area sprinklers. If you want to suppress, then your route should be ESFR or Early SUPPRESSION Fast Response. So, you may want to re-define your intent.

It seems like you already had your end choice in mind, so go with what you think is going to achieve your best result. There are many possible ways to attack any problem.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[JavorQ]

Thank You Travis, i have to redefine my intent like You said- CONTROL I'm mainly looking for guidance in classifing commodity.

 

[MatthewJWillis]

Commodity is the easy part,IMHO.
How much water where,seems to be the crux.
Guess I'll stick with the "American" approach...

 

[LCREP]

As someone who spent 36 years visiting 1000's of warehouses from an insurance engineering evaluation point of view, chances are all your hard work will be for nothing 3 months after the client moves in and changes the storage configuration....lol. Inadequate sprinkler design was the number 1 thing we found wrong followed by ESFR obstructions in storage occupancies. Product line changes by the introduction of plastic, switching from a wood to plastic pallets, design for 12' storage in a 22' high building, changing from pallet to rack storage, idle wood or plastic pallet storage, etc etc was my daily problem with this occupancy...so glad I retired...BUT I still look up when I visit a big box store....lol.....

 

[UFT12]

Like hearing my wife right now, "honey, can you pease stop looking high and concentrate to what we came for?"

 

[JavorQ]

But still...
I have a feeling that no one can tell me which commodity shall i pick and if i can stay with class 3.

 

[UFT12]

Javor,

the whole idea of the thread was to give you an understanding that you need to think forward and to what may come in the future. Your customer needs to know that. If you make absolutely clear to them, in writing, that any change of commodity or arrangement in the future will possibly require substancial changes to the sprinkler system including pumps etc, then go ahead and classify this as III. At the end, if you are only interested about the commodity, why don't you contact the AHJ? They may provide you some valuable information about it.

 

[LCREP]

As I have said many times in this forum.....did you contact the insurance carrier engineering dept for guidance? We provided guidelines on protection including commodity classification on a daily bases to our clients. In fact we had a spreadsheet with over 1,000 products and what the commodity classification was to insure our staff was consistent in providing an answer and for our staff to evaluate existing facilities.

 

[cdafd]

JAVOR

Post the """owner's information certificate"", and that will help classifying the commodity