How to get old materials new mtrs?

[USAeng]

We have a bunch of old pipe and bar on the shelf... we no longer need it but the mtrs were lost. How can you get new mtrs if there is no idea where it came from? is this possible? and if so, any idea as far as cost? Thank you!

 

[EdStainless]

That depends on what spec you want it certified to.
Do you still have heat lot segregation?
If so then it is a matter of getting chemistry and mechanical testing done. But the catch is that YOU will be generating the CMTR (certified material test report). Because lot control is in your hands, this becomes your responsibility.
Or it is scrap.

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Plymouth Tube

 

[metengr]

This is not a problem. Get material samples over to a competent met lab and have them run chemical analysis and mechanical testing to establish which ASTM material specification would be applicable. This is done very often.

 

[USAeng]

thanks guys

 

[REGRUMBLE]

You would only get a partial MTR since your lab would only verify mechanical and chemical analysis. If your contract reqired country of origin or code certification it would not be acceptable. Lots of material is sold without MTR's so you would need to determin if the partial is worth the cost.

 

[EdStainless]

This process isn't hard for a single piece of material, but if you have a larger quantity how will you show that they are from the same lot?

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Plymouth Tube

 

[metengr]

You have to subject the individual unmarked pieces to met lab testing mentioned above to confirm and provide new traceability. Costly, but can be done.

 

[redpicker]

How are you going to certify requirements such as forging reduction, steelmaking practices, etc... For example, most ASTM steel specifications have the requirement

The steel shall be made in an open-hearth, basic-oxygen, or electric-arc furnace, possibly followed by additional refining in a ladle metallurgy furnace (LMF), or secondary melting by
vacuum-arc remelting (VAR) or electroslag remelting (ESR).

How can a lab certify to this requirement? Well, I guess they can certify to anything they want, but the certification won't be accurate.

I have to agree with REGRUMBLE, an independent lab can perform chemical, mechanical, even metallurgical tests, but they cannot (accurately) certify to the method of manufacture (or country) if they don't have traceability.

rp

 

[metengr]

Of course not all requirements will be met for ASTM certification. It may be that this level of certification is not required. However, if one can match material as close as possible this could suffice for some applications.

 

[EdStainless]

Usually in a case like this you know that the material was bought to one of a few specifications. In that case you know that it met the melting method rules and such to begin with.
County of origin could be an issue.
As would any non-destructive testing that may have been required.

If the spec involved are chem and mech only then you can do it.

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Plymouth Tube

 

[redpicker]

Usually in a case like this you know that the material was bought to one of a few specifications. In that case you know that it met the melting method rules and such to begin with.

It is one thing to know the material "met the melting method rules and such", but something else to certify the material met processing requirements that you have no direct traceability to. If traceability to these processing requirements is not a requirement for certification, why are they in the specification?

Or, to look at it another way, if you know the material was purchased "to one of a few specifications", and you can determine which one of those specifications it meets, then you haven't lost traceability. If you can't determine which one of those specifications it meets, you don't have traceability.

Now, for many specifications, traceability to melting practice is not a requirement. But, for those where it is, you can't produce traceability from a tensile test and a chemical analysis. I realize it is done fairly often, but that does not make it right. I mean, if all that was important was the chemical analysis and mechanical properties, why do the specifications have requirements for melting practices, reduction ratio's, etc...

rp

 

[unclesyd]

As stated above not all materials used in fabrication do not require any type certification. We have sold a lot of surplus pipe to different local fabricators as is where is type sale. One of the fabricators built boat trailers another used the pipe to built frames to hold boat molds, and another built steel tables.. All of these transaction were a win/win deal. the end users were extremely happy as they knew that the pipe was bought under a specification at one time.

Another approach is to sell the materials to a surplus equipment dealers that carries pipe and let them dispose of it. We took this approach for surplus pipe from canceled projects. Probably a third of the pipe had a pedigree.