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how to (nicely) not hire someone 20
- Thread starter SLTA
- Start date
FreddyNurk
Electrical
Here's another thought I don't understand either - "We appreciate your interest in joining us at Fred's Condescending Rejection Services and for taking the time to submit an application for employment. Your application will be kept on file and we will contact you again in future if a suitable position becomes available."
Do companies actually do this? Is this a forlorn hope for the rejected that one day they might just trawl through the filing cabinet on the off chance someone is still looking for a job?
As much as zdas04's recommendation probably feels like a sledgehamer to the face, the content is correct. I've seen a fair share of slightly softer worded equivalents,though, that have given away no more information than what zdas04's does.
Here's another question though, what if the candidate starts asking questions as to where they went wrong or what they could do to improve? I'm sure there are quite a number of career progression texts around that recommend exactly that.
Do companies actually do this? Is this a forlorn hope for the rejected that one day they might just trawl through the filing cabinet on the off chance someone is still looking for a job?
As much as zdas04's recommendation probably feels like a sledgehamer to the face, the content is correct. I've seen a fair share of slightly softer worded equivalents,though, that have given away no more information than what zdas04's does.
Here's another question though, what if the candidate starts asking questions as to where they went wrong or what they could do to improve? I'm sure there are quite a number of career progression texts around that recommend exactly that.
hokie66....as usual, you nailed it! I think it is generational. It is still the prerogative of a company or individual to hire whomever they please, provided there is no direct discrimination in the process. I've been hiring and firing people for over 35 years...I see no reason to change my approach. Geez hokie...we are old!
FreddyNurk - It happened to me. Interviewed in April 1988 to replace retiring staff engineer. Did not get the job as they hired a younger, probably cheaper candidate. Got rejection letter with - "Will keep your resume on file . . . Yadda, Yadda, Yadda".
Got a phone call in November, from Department Manager, as they were increasing staff due to new Greenfield addition that had been approved for 1989. They had reviewed previous interview candidates and I apparently had not been trash canned in April. No new interview. Asked if interested and then had job offer formalized within a couple of days.
Required relocation; but 20% pay increase, moving expenses covered, shorter commute, and closer to both of our families. No brainer.
Worked side by side with previous hire and three years later was promoted above him.
gjc
Got a phone call in November, from Department Manager, as they were increasing staff due to new Greenfield addition that had been approved for 1989. They had reviewed previous interview candidates and I apparently had not been trash canned in April. No new interview. Asked if interested and then had job offer formalized within a couple of days.
Required relocation; but 20% pay increase, moving expenses covered, shorter commute, and closer to both of our families. No brainer.
Worked side by side with previous hire and three years later was promoted above him.
gjc
The follow-up questions really suck. I had an exchange like:
"Sorry, you were not selected for the job"
"I understand, could you tell me what I could have done differently to have gotten it?"
"Your background preparation was not strong enough for us to feel that you could handle the job on day 1"
"What preparation would I have had to have to have made the cut?"
"You have no experience in xxx, yyy, and xyz, all three of those are key"
"But I did ..."
You never get out of that loop. I had one guy who purported to be an expert in pipeline modeling because he "attended a presentation by another team in his senior design class that did a pipeline model for their project". He got in a huff when I said hearing about someone else's work is not quite the same as doing the work yourself. I have found it best just to say "your were not selected, I cannot discuss the deliberations of the team that made the selection". It sucks, but life is too short to get into the endless loop.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat
"Sorry, you were not selected for the job"
"I understand, could you tell me what I could have done differently to have gotten it?"
"Your background preparation was not strong enough for us to feel that you could handle the job on day 1"
"What preparation would I have had to have to have made the cut?"
"You have no experience in xxx, yyy, and xyz, all three of those are key"
"But I did ..."
You never get out of that loop. I had one guy who purported to be an expert in pipeline modeling because he "attended a presentation by another team in his senior design class that did a pipeline model for their project". He got in a huff when I said hearing about someone else's work is not quite the same as doing the work yourself. I have found it best just to say "your were not selected, I cannot discuss the deliberations of the team that made the selection". It sucks, but life is too short to get into the endless loop.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat
To speak as someone who has been on the "rejected" side many times, I have always asked via letter to be informed of the reason for the rejection.
I haven't always received a response and I realized the company was likely just protecting themselves.
Realizing that I was not going to change anybody's mind, I did not rebut the responses I received.
I received some very good feedback on where I was deficient in their opinion. Some of the issues were things I could change, some I could not.
I haven't always received a response and I realized the company was likely just protecting themselves.
Realizing that I was not going to change anybody's mind, I did not rebut the responses I received.
I received some very good feedback on where I was deficient in their opinion. Some of the issues were things I could change, some I could not.
I've always respected the decisions of folks on the deciding side of the hiring game. They have their needs. It's not my place to tell them what those needs are.
Likewise, you need to be OK with the fact that you are hiring to fill YOUR needs, not the applicant's. Your ship, your crew.
Likewise, you need to be OK with the fact that you are hiring to fill YOUR needs, not the applicant's. Your ship, your crew.
- Thread starter
- #27
I had the opposite questions when I took this current job. Two companies I had contact with were looking to hire me. One was faster with the offer, had a more diverse clientele and it was more than I was asking for. The company I rejected came back and asked why I had chosen the other company over them.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
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- #30
moltenmetal
Chemical
When I was a student, we referred to these as FOAD letters, the last letters standing for "...and die". They serve to communicate one thing only: you were not selected, don't waste your time or ours by calling us about this position.
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- #32
MacGyverS2000
Electrical
I send out FOAD quotes to clients I'm not interested in working with. If they don't accept the high rate, no skin off of my nose. If they do, I suck it up and make some serious bank.
Dan - Owner
Dan - Owner
moltenmetal
Chemical
MacGyver- we refer to those a little more politely as "PFO quotes", with the P standing for "please". We treat prospective but difficult clients with more deference than interview candidates I guess.
Why is it necessary to write a letter to the applicant prior to the position being filled? SLTA sounds like a one man company, not General Motors. I would prefer to wait until the position has been filled, then advise him of the decision.
BA
BA
MacGyverS2000
Electrical
Because the candidate is a human being with his own life to deal with... leaving him hanging in the balance until you're able to find someone to fill the spot is needless torture. When you've made a decision about the candidate, tell them. It's the fair thing to do rather than stringing them along.BAretired said:
Dan - Owner
racookpe1978
Nuclear
As an interviewer, it would be "nice" to know exactly what I could do better: Did I overprice myself, but had the right skillset and the right presentation? Did I not have the skill set that job actually wanted? Did that company want a younger person they could "mold" rather than an experienced person who might be more rigid? ??Right skill set and good interview, but somebody else was a superstar? Right skillset but poor interview?
Realistically, that ain't gonna happen under most circumstances. However, it is very nice - very important - to know absolutely that I should NOT wait or postpone any other decision thinking/hoping that I am going to get a second interview!
Each person actually interviewed should get a confirmation letter saying there will be no further interviews.
Realistically, that ain't gonna happen under most circumstances. However, it is very nice - very important - to know absolutely that I should NOT wait or postpone any other decision thinking/hoping that I am going to get a second interview!
Each person actually interviewed should get a confirmation letter saying there will be no further interviews.
racookpe1978
Nuclear
And, if there were two positions open, or if the company were to hire again in the next weeks, I (as the person accepted for an interview), NEED absolutely to know whether I need to apply again, or if the first interview and its review and selection process will keep my name "open" for the second job.
SLTA said:
Based on the above, this is a one man firm who needs a new employee. Before the interview has concluded, the interviewer has formed certain impressions of the applicant and probably knows then whether or not he would be suitable for the job. The applicant probably has a pretty good idea from the tone of the conversation whether or not he was successful.
Why not tell the applicant at that time that he is not suitable? What is the point in waiting and writing a letter? No new information is going to be made available between the time of the interview and the writing of the letter.
Tell him immediately and tell him why. Skip the letter.
BA
BARetired,
Have you ever done a job interview? If at the end of it you find you have been talking to a slug you'd never hire in this lifetime, saying "Thanks for your time, don't expect to EVER hear from me" prompts another discussion that just sucks ("what did I do wrong", "I can do better", "just give me a chance", "my mom always gives me three chances", "you're and asshole"). I've done some interviews that, if I'd have told the slug why I never wanted to even think about his name again, he'd have punched me and then I'd have had to spend the rest of the day with police and coroners and other people who don't make me money.
Telling them at the interview also implies that you've made a snap decision and that gives them hope that they can influence you to back off and make a reasoned decision.
The one paragraph "thanks but no thanks" letter (preferably with a sloppily affixed signature stamp) is better all around.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat
Have you ever done a job interview? If at the end of it you find you have been talking to a slug you'd never hire in this lifetime, saying "Thanks for your time, don't expect to EVER hear from me" prompts another discussion that just sucks ("what did I do wrong", "I can do better", "just give me a chance", "my mom always gives me three chances", "you're and asshole"). I've done some interviews that, if I'd have told the slug why I never wanted to even think about his name again, he'd have punched me and then I'd have had to spend the rest of the day with police and coroners and other people who don't make me money.
Telling them at the interview also implies that you've made a snap decision and that gives them hope that they can influence you to back off and make a reasoned decision.
The one paragraph "thanks but no thanks" letter (preferably with a sloppily affixed signature stamp) is better all around.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat
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