I have never been aggressively ambitious. I didn't get into engineering looking to become rich. I don't desire to be an executive. However, I want to improve my families lifestyle. How do you get beyond cost of living increases and start getting more money to spend? Are the only options entering management or job hoping? What has worked you?
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How to stay ahead of inflation? 2
- Thread starter HDS
- Start date
Up until this current position I've found that working hard and performing well/above expectations was enough (this is both in & out of engineering).
I probably could have done even better if I’d pushed a bit harder in salary negotiations etc but overall can’t complain.
After a slightly secretive team meeting we had this morning I’m starting to doubt that just working my a** off and meeting or exceeding expectations is going to be enough here.
I probably could have done even better if I’d pushed a bit harder in salary negotiations etc but overall can’t complain.
After a slightly secretive team meeting we had this morning I’m starting to doubt that just working my a** off and meeting or exceeding expectations is going to be enough here.
Wow - I bet this topic gets a lot of posts.
My experience (16 years)with rare exception until my current employer is that for most people "in the trenches" the way to increase your pay is to move from one company to another. I know thats not what you wanted to hear but it's a pretty common practice.
If you don't want to do that then I would suggest the following: Arrange a time to speak with your boss and tell him of your desire. Ask him point blank to take time with you to layout what his expectations and requirements are (ie) align your goals with your managers. Give that a year. If you still get a crappy raise then suffice to say you will not get a good one under the current management team.
good luck
My experience (16 years)with rare exception until my current employer is that for most people "in the trenches" the way to increase your pay is to move from one company to another. I know thats not what you wanted to hear but it's a pretty common practice.
If you don't want to do that then I would suggest the following: Arrange a time to speak with your boss and tell him of your desire. Ask him point blank to take time with you to layout what his expectations and requirements are (ie) align your goals with your managers. Give that a year. If you still get a crappy raise then suffice to say you will not get a good one under the current management team.
good luck
Generally speaking, big(ger) jumps in salary come from outside your current organization. That's not to say you can't make inroads within your organization. Salary changes between job changes were two to three times what my yearly review raise netted me.
Before looking for a new job, look for the so called 'low hanging fruit'. Is there a project that you could invest a few hours a week into which will provide a positive, tangible benefit to the company? Are their additional tasks that you could (reasonably) take on and not adversely affect your commitments at both work and home? Are there software tools that you can generate in your off time that may help the engineering staff complete their tasks more efficiently that you can program? Complete some or all of the above may get you noticed and bring you positive benefits.
If you are unhappy in your job, or unable to advance to your liking, you may look at taking outside training to improve your skill set or even start checking out available positions both inside and outside your current company.
Assuming none of the above works, then you may look into a 2nd business. If it doesn't violate your companies policy, if may be possible for you to do engineering work on a contract basis for other companies, or perhaps yourself, if you follow you local laws and have the proper accreditation.
More simply (and less glamorous) is to look at your budget and spend less! In the short term, control what is going out of the bank account is easier than what's coming in.
--
Erik
MO P.E.
Before looking for a new job, look for the so called 'low hanging fruit'. Is there a project that you could invest a few hours a week into which will provide a positive, tangible benefit to the company? Are their additional tasks that you could (reasonably) take on and not adversely affect your commitments at both work and home? Are there software tools that you can generate in your off time that may help the engineering staff complete their tasks more efficiently that you can program? Complete some or all of the above may get you noticed and bring you positive benefits.
If you are unhappy in your job, or unable to advance to your liking, you may look at taking outside training to improve your skill set or even start checking out available positions both inside and outside your current company.
Assuming none of the above works, then you may look into a 2nd business. If it doesn't violate your companies policy, if may be possible for you to do engineering work on a contract basis for other companies, or perhaps yourself, if you follow you local laws and have the proper accreditation.
More simply (and less glamorous) is to look at your budget and spend less! In the short term, control what is going out of the bank account is easier than what's coming in.
--
Erik
MO P.E.
Historically, gold only keeps abreast of inflation. It is a wealth-preserver, but not a wealth-builder. A pound of gold buys about as much bread today as it did 3,000 years ago.
Do learn to save and invest.
I know a number of people who are successful at buying, improving, and reselling real estate.
Do learn to save and invest.
I know a number of people who are successful at buying, improving, and reselling real estate.
michfan
Structural
- Jan 4, 2007
- 107
Try a second job. That's always fun.
Or, just for kicks, try writing down all that you spend for a week or two. You will be shocked at the "little" amounts that add up to big amounts. $2 for a coffee when you stop for gas, stuff at the grocery store that was "on sale" that you didn't really plan to buy, etc. Most people don't blink at spending $1.50 for a pop at McDonalds, but you can usually buy 2 2-liter bottles for that amount on sale at the grocery store! Oh, and do you eat out every day? You can save more than $100 a month by brown bagging, and that is usually a lot healthier than fast food every day. After you start to see your spending patterns, you can see where the money is really going each month. Then you can set a realistic budget and see just how much you really have. I'd start there.
It's not always how much you are making, but how much you are spending that matters.
If that doesn't work for ya, try selling some of the stuff you don't use anymore on Ebay.
Or, just for kicks, try writing down all that you spend for a week or two. You will be shocked at the "little" amounts that add up to big amounts. $2 for a coffee when you stop for gas, stuff at the grocery store that was "on sale" that you didn't really plan to buy, etc. Most people don't blink at spending $1.50 for a pop at McDonalds, but you can usually buy 2 2-liter bottles for that amount on sale at the grocery store! Oh, and do you eat out every day? You can save more than $100 a month by brown bagging, and that is usually a lot healthier than fast food every day. After you start to see your spending patterns, you can see where the money is really going each month. Then you can set a realistic budget and see just how much you really have. I'd start there.
It's not always how much you are making, but how much you are spending that matters.
If that doesn't work for ya, try selling some of the stuff you don't use anymore on Ebay.
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1
- #8
Spending is like a vacuum, which will suck up anything it can. People live on salaries well below what engineers make. Parade magazine publishes a yearly salary survey. Have you seen how little some people make? For a relatively well-paid engineer to be crying about not making enough money is rather sad.
As an engineer, you need to do the math. Everything is a tradeoff. Divert money from where you are wasting it to where you want it to make a difference. Are you buying a new car every two years? or leasing? Are you buying too much stuff, in general? Are you paying $5 for a cup of coffee? Are you eating out at lunch time?
If you can't save 10% of your salary, then you're basically overspending to being with.
TTFN
As an engineer, you need to do the math. Everything is a tradeoff. Divert money from where you are wasting it to where you want it to make a difference. Are you buying a new car every two years? or leasing? Are you buying too much stuff, in general? Are you paying $5 for a cup of coffee? Are you eating out at lunch time?
If you can't save 10% of your salary, then you're basically overspending to being with.
TTFN
I'll second the working your a** off comment. We were informed today that senior management was requiring a justification for engineering salaries as they're higher than they were in the late 90s during the last production boom. Middle managers gave a justification which was accepted, but it appears that the higher ups' goal for a ROI is 7X an engineer's annual salary.
I'm guessing that bonus season will not be coming around this year. I've hit the 7X amount, but as bonuses are purely discretionary, I can never count on anything.
I've always just looked for a second job. To date, investing, bartending, and repainting/repairing sportbike bodywork have all supplied extra cash. I'm currently trying out the home improvement market, albeit slowly.
I'm guessing that bonus season will not be coming around this year. I've hit the 7X amount, but as bonuses are purely discretionary, I can never count on anything.
I've always just looked for a second job. To date, investing, bartending, and repainting/repairing sportbike bodywork have all supplied extra cash. I'm currently trying out the home improvement market, albeit slowly.
GregLocock
Automotive
True story: worked at company A, left on 44k. Started at company B, on 61k. One small pay rise to 64k, Eighteen months later, back at company A, same desk, same boss, same job 75k on contract. Even my original security pass still worked. Eighteen months later, offered full time job,same desk, same boss, same job, at 72k.
So in three years my pay almost doubled, merely by working somewhere else for a while.
Anyway, if you want more money in the future the easiest thing to do is to stop spending it now. Why have you got a car loan? Why haven't you paid off your house loan? Why do you pay interest on your credit cards? Why have you missed buying shares in the biggest bull market EVER?
I laid out a six year plan to get 'rich'. It took five years to get to my original target (investment income sufficient to cover my weekly living costs, including rent at the time) but I've decided that that is not an adequate goal. I drive a 24 year old car, live in a small house, bought with cash, and cook much of my own food, but spend a lot on books and eat out in decent restaurants once a week or so. It takes me about 3 hours a week to run my share portfolio, but I only make about one trade a month.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
So in three years my pay almost doubled, merely by working somewhere else for a while.
Anyway, if you want more money in the future the easiest thing to do is to stop spending it now. Why have you got a car loan? Why haven't you paid off your house loan? Why do you pay interest on your credit cards? Why have you missed buying shares in the biggest bull market EVER?
I laid out a six year plan to get 'rich'. It took five years to get to my original target (investment income sufficient to cover my weekly living costs, including rent at the time) but I've decided that that is not an adequate goal. I drive a 24 year old car, live in a small house, bought with cash, and cook much of my own food, but spend a lot on books and eat out in decent restaurants once a week or so. It takes me about 3 hours a week to run my share portfolio, but I only make about one trade a month.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
COEngineeer
Structural
When I got a real job I started to spend money like crazy and put it all on credit card. No.. you dont need that crotch rocket, no you dont need that red sport car, no you dont need that plasma tV. I am very cheap now and put most of my extra money to debt and 401 K (maximum company match). Once I have only mortgage debt, I think the smartest thing to do to stay ahead of inflation is 401 K (unless you can invest it somewhere else).
It has never mattered how much I made--we always spent just over 100% of it. When I was just making enough to cover the rent, our "extra" spending went for food upgrades (e.g., an occasional piece of meat that didn't have to go into a stew). Now the extra goes into high-end worthless crap. At every stage in between we saved a little, used bonuses and tax refunds to cover the small overage and were happy.
The "good times" were defined by my being happy in my work. The "bad times" were when I wasn't. Money never was the big driver of the happiness scale.
David
The "good times" were defined by my being happy in my work. The "bad times" were when I wasn't. Money never was the big driver of the happiness scale.
David
michfan has something there.
Some years back I wondered where all my money was going. My wife & I bought Quicken and fanatically recorded every expense for a period 3 months. The pie chart of expenses showed the biggest percentage of expenses was..."miscellaneous" through the ATM card. Think about it: you get a $20 bill from the ATM, get lunch, buy a coke, get a candy bar, stop at the store on the way home to get a six pack and poof! Bye bye twenty. So you get another. In one week you've taken out $40 from your hard-earned available cash.
I gave myself a 20% raise by budgeting my expenses and being frugal.
A couple years ago, a friend of mine told me that you can make a decent living from working for others. The only true source of wealth is ownership. So I'm working on that, now.
TygerDawg
Some years back I wondered where all my money was going. My wife & I bought Quicken and fanatically recorded every expense for a period 3 months. The pie chart of expenses showed the biggest percentage of expenses was..."miscellaneous" through the ATM card. Think about it: you get a $20 bill from the ATM, get lunch, buy a coke, get a candy bar, stop at the store on the way home to get a six pack and poof! Bye bye twenty. So you get another. In one week you've taken out $40 from your hard-earned available cash.
I gave myself a 20% raise by budgeting my expenses and being frugal.
A couple years ago, a friend of mine told me that you can make a decent living from working for others. The only true source of wealth is ownership. So I'm working on that, now.
TygerDawg
Thanks for the post HDS, I was just looking at how to approach the boss for a decent raise myself, I did not like the 4.5%. I would not call it a raise, but "bringing my salary in-line with the market" - a one-time adjustment kind of a deal, sort of- hope he'l buy into it, but not counting on it.
I got Plan B in the works, same as the TygerDawg approach.
IRstuff, I see your point but there are some areas such as the DC, SF areas where young engineers (two incomes) are moving out because they cannot afford a townhouse, those national salary averages that you see in surveys do not mean a thing in some areas.
I got Plan B in the works, same as the TygerDawg approach.
IRstuff, I see your point but there are some areas such as the DC, SF areas where young engineers (two incomes) are moving out because they cannot afford a townhouse, those national salary averages that you see in surveys do not mean a thing in some areas.
There are always excuses to not buy, because the timing is "not right." to me, that's just procrastination and laziness; looking for the easy buck.
I bought my first house when interest rates had fallen DOWN TO 13.5% APR, back in 1982, when the previous high was something like 19% APR and housing prices were grossly inflated, so all this whining about prices is just that much whining.
Have any of your "hard-working" friends built up a nest egg for a down-payment, or have they actually been "hard-playing" or "hard-drinking" with maybe less than $1000 in their checking accounts?
There's a financial help book that dsecribes an encounter the author had with a couple that was asking about whether they had enough to retire on. Upon hearing that they were a single-income family whose breadwinner was a teacher with $40K salary, the author figured it would be trivial to look over what he expected would be a meager pittance of a savings account. Much to his chagrin, the couple had saved over $400K, while the author, a well-paid financial adviser had less than $100K in his own savings.
As for starting your own business, you should read Kiyosaki's "Cashflow Quadrant." He talks about the 4 types of people, employees, investors, business owners, and self-employed. Each type has different mental outlooks and goals, and therefore different financial outcomes. Since most engineers are, in fact, employees, there's a large desire for security. Without understanding one's desire for security and without overcoming that desire, it would be difficult to move out into a different quadrant. Kiyosaki tends to be a bit of a salesman, but his reasoning tends to be sound.
TTFN
I bought my first house when interest rates had fallen DOWN TO 13.5% APR, back in 1982, when the previous high was something like 19% APR and housing prices were grossly inflated, so all this whining about prices is just that much whining.
Have any of your "hard-working" friends built up a nest egg for a down-payment, or have they actually been "hard-playing" or "hard-drinking" with maybe less than $1000 in their checking accounts?
There's a financial help book that dsecribes an encounter the author had with a couple that was asking about whether they had enough to retire on. Upon hearing that they were a single-income family whose breadwinner was a teacher with $40K salary, the author figured it would be trivial to look over what he expected would be a meager pittance of a savings account. Much to his chagrin, the couple had saved over $400K, while the author, a well-paid financial adviser had less than $100K in his own savings.
As for starting your own business, you should read Kiyosaki's "Cashflow Quadrant." He talks about the 4 types of people, employees, investors, business owners, and self-employed. Each type has different mental outlooks and goals, and therefore different financial outcomes. Since most engineers are, in fact, employees, there's a large desire for security. Without understanding one's desire for security and without overcoming that desire, it would be difficult to move out into a different quadrant. Kiyosaki tends to be a bit of a salesman, but his reasoning tends to be sound.
TTFN
- Thread starter
- #18
Kenat
Your are right I was more interested in how to grow a salary without the job hoping or leaving engineering. It is interesting that most of the answers imply that the best way to achieve the same results is through other means. That the best way to improve my lifestyle is to control my budget and find additional income outside of my employer.
There has always been a strong theme on these boards of dissatisfaction with the opportunities as an employee in engineering. However as several people have pointed out we need to have a broader perspective. The 90s are 7 years ago. It is time to accept that the job market is stable or shrinking for engineers.
So to review this thread the best ways to stay ahead of inflation so far are.
Work hard try to achieve promotions not annual raises
Spend less/save more
look for additional income
Invest
Don't expect too much unless you change jobs or own the buisness
Your are right I was more interested in how to grow a salary without the job hoping or leaving engineering. It is interesting that most of the answers imply that the best way to achieve the same results is through other means. That the best way to improve my lifestyle is to control my budget and find additional income outside of my employer.
There has always been a strong theme on these boards of dissatisfaction with the opportunities as an employee in engineering. However as several people have pointed out we need to have a broader perspective. The 90s are 7 years ago. It is time to accept that the job market is stable or shrinking for engineers.
So to review this thread the best ways to stay ahead of inflation so far are.
Work hard try to achieve promotions not annual raises
Spend less/save more
look for additional income
Invest
Don't expect too much unless you change jobs or own the buisness
I think the pay thing can depend a lot on the culture of where you work, where you are in your career, or even your own personality and that of your managers etc.
At my last place in the UK, where I took the 'working hard and performing well/above expectations' approach it paid off. I only got one promotion as such, I was allowed to drop the "Junior" from my title, but had several well above inflation pay increases. I did however pick up extra responsibilities, especially some project management, did OK and was well rewarded financially. Often times if I perceived that something needed doing, even if it was outside my duties, rather than wait to be told I'd just get on and do it, more often than not I got it more or less right and so didn't end up wasting much time as what I’d done was of use.
Other people at the same place though had got stuck in a rut and weren’t getting the pay raises even though they were arguably of more value to the company. Mostly this seemed to be due to personality issues.
Also this was the first few years of my career so I was learning a lot and arguably my value to the company was increasing faster than that of most of my more senior colleagues, hence the faster increase in pay. (Note, I’m talking about rate of change of pay & value, almost all of the more experienced guys were of far more absolute value to the company than me, I have no illusions about that.)
I guess maybe you just have to adapt to fit in to your unique situation. Look what others around you have done to get ahead, and assuming you can live with it morally etc, do the same. Or, ask your manager what you could do to advance yourself, obviously be careful with the wording but hopefully you get my point.
At my current place I’ve worked hard, tried to apply the same philosophy and although my manager is more than happy with me the fact is Sales are down in my division, hence the pay raises wont be big this year, no matter how hard I’ve worked and what I’ve achieved.
At my last place in the UK, where I took the 'working hard and performing well/above expectations' approach it paid off. I only got one promotion as such, I was allowed to drop the "Junior" from my title, but had several well above inflation pay increases. I did however pick up extra responsibilities, especially some project management, did OK and was well rewarded financially. Often times if I perceived that something needed doing, even if it was outside my duties, rather than wait to be told I'd just get on and do it, more often than not I got it more or less right and so didn't end up wasting much time as what I’d done was of use.
Other people at the same place though had got stuck in a rut and weren’t getting the pay raises even though they were arguably of more value to the company. Mostly this seemed to be due to personality issues.
Also this was the first few years of my career so I was learning a lot and arguably my value to the company was increasing faster than that of most of my more senior colleagues, hence the faster increase in pay. (Note, I’m talking about rate of change of pay & value, almost all of the more experienced guys were of far more absolute value to the company than me, I have no illusions about that.)
I guess maybe you just have to adapt to fit in to your unique situation. Look what others around you have done to get ahead, and assuming you can live with it morally etc, do the same. Or, ask your manager what you could do to advance yourself, obviously be careful with the wording but hopefully you get my point.
At my current place I’ve worked hard, tried to apply the same philosophy and although my manager is more than happy with me the fact is Sales are down in my division, hence the pay raises wont be big this year, no matter how hard I’ve worked and what I’ve achieved.
DaveVikingPE
Structural
Marry a low-maintenance good cook.
Live beneath your means.
Live beneath your means.
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