Hybrid Diesel and Steam engine 2

[Azmio]

Hey guys,

I've been working on this novel combustion cycle for the past 2 years and I recently presented the concept in Engine Expo in Stuttgart. Based on the responses that I got from the industry, I am not surprise if people are now thinking of building the prototype engines. Appreciate if you can go over the slides and provide me with comments

http://www.engine-expo.com/forum_2009/pdfs/day1/10_azmi_osman.pdf

There are also 3 JSAE papers (#20095429, #20095211, #20095063) presented in Yokohama 2 months ago. The papers available online should you need to look into the design details and exhaust valve strategy.

Go over the presentation slides until the end and let me know on whether we can finally have energy sustainability in the future. With the combined use of renewable fuels from palm oil and the water heating from sunlight, I believe that we will.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Nice presentation.

So, you're proposing parallel retail distribution of oxygen and methanol. I'm imagining a whole new architecture for service stations. New locations, too, after the first few incidents.

How many engines have you built so far?



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Dan320]

At the Rolls Royce engine museum in Derby, I saw a radial torpedo engine that mixed water and fuel in the combustion chambers for ... for ... eh- for some reason. A precursor to the new engine here?

Dan

 

[Azmio]

Mike,

Iron smelting plants that have switched to oxygen combustion reported 30% decrease in operating cost.

Yup a whole new refilling station that refills methanol, water and oxygen at the same time. Oxygen is supplied using PSA oxygen generator and can the generator can be placed nearby or centralized. Methanol is generated from the "integrated methanol and power generation plant" as stated at the end of the presentation.

What do you meant by few incidents? We are not talking about storing lots of oxygen as in the case of hydrogen. Oxygen is processed from ambient air, using the PSA oxygen generator. It will only be switched on if there is demand for it.

As for the oxygen tank, I'm just riding on the existing natural gas composite tank. The technology is already there. They even upgraded the construction for hydrogen.

 

[Azmio]

Dan,

The new engine evolved so much after we faced so many technical challenges during the design stage. I checked around for prior arts and found these two prior arts: -

1) At the end of world war 2, US navy overruned Japanese submarine base near Okinawa. They found oxygen based torpedo that travels faster and has greater range than any existing torpedo technology.

2) There is also an old SAE paper from US Army tank command discussing about the use of water injection to replace engine coolant. It cools off the combustion chamber well and the researchers also reported a "bonus" of 20-30% increase in power and fuel efficiency.

Mixing fuel and water is not good because you need to increase the cylinder temperature prior to the fuel auto ignition. We need to go back to the basic of heat engine in which we supply only what is needed for heat to be available, in this case oxygen and fuel. There is no need for lots of compression work as in diesel engine. With stratification of oxygen and fuel, you can stuff in as much residual gas from the previous cycle to auto ignite the charge. Compression work is only needed to accurately get the cylinder temperature for fuel auto ignition. That why there is a slide about manipulating the exhaust valve closing point and throttling the exhaust gas using low valve lift.

 

[GregLocock]

USN knew about Long Lance torpedoes long before the end of WW2, since they captured some in 1943.

I am intrigued to hear how you will store pure O2 inside cars.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[MikeHalloran]

I'm curious about durability, clogging resistance and corrosion resistance of a direct methanol injector.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Azmio]

Greg,

A unit within PETRONAS run a big fleet of natural gas vehicles, many of them are certified to work on high pressure line. Oxygen is stored in the composite tank that is much safer than the gasoline tank. There is also a relief valve in case the surroundings is too hot, this will buy some time for the passenger to flee if there is a need for it. As for the oxygen, if there is no burnable material, the oxygen just wont burn.

 

[Azmio]

Mike

You can either add lubricity additive in the methanol fuel or improve on the coating or material wear resistance. Furthermore, with fuel and oxygen stratification inside the bowl, there is no need at all to run at 1800 bar. Less than half of that pressure is good enough

 

[MikeHalloran]

Uh, "if there is no burnable material, the oxygen just wont burn." is not strictly true. So far as oxygen is concerned, everything else in the universe, including especially its container, is fuel. That's what makes it so dangerous. Please don't take my word for that; plenty of cautionary information is available gratis from industrial oxygen suppliers.

I salute your optimism. May you overcome all the technical and other challenges that await you.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Azmio]

if you can burn inorganic material to get heat, I will have to salute you too but based on my research, I have to disagree with you. You can oxidize metal but you wont get intense heat that you will get with gasoline, diesel or methanol.

To us, it's getting harder to get oil and gas that we have to go ultra deep sea. I've worked with Japanese OEM for quite some time and we always believe that give us time and money and we will solve the engineering problems. So, as long as I still have that Japanese mindset in me, the engineering challenges can be overcome. I have the right to have the optimism.

 

[MikeHalloran]

See, e.g., "oxygen lance", a simple device that uses iron as fuel.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[patprimmer]

Azmio

Your optimism is encouraging, but to be a bit pedantic, Sodium is a metal. So is magnesium.

I think iron also is exothermic when reacted with oxygen as is the case with an oxy acetylene torch cutter, sometimes known as a gas axe.

Regards
Pat
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[BrianPetersen]

Fuel plus oxygen in a combustion chamber will make a mighty good cutting torch for burning pistons, cylinders, valves, etc.

You can recycle the exhaust to act as a diluent, but there is another diluent much more commonly available ... 78% nitrogen.

When calculating the efficiency of this proposal, don't neglect the significant energy required to separate oxygen from air, and don't neglect the significant volume and weight of high-pressure storage.

 

[GregLocock]

"When calculating the efficiency of this proposal, don't neglect the significant energy required to separate oxygen from air,"

Well, I had assumed that that was the first step!

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[EdDanzer]

Azmio,

I built a proof of concept engine that was to inject water after the fuel burnt in 2002. The hydraulic power extraction needs more work so I never tried the water injection portion. Back in the late 1970’s I considered modifying a one cylinder engine to inject water after the fuel burnt but after talking to old steam engine operators they felt the expansion time for the water would need to be longer than for a gas engine to obtain much real benefit so I never went down that path. The linear engine is designed to have a longer power stroke than intake to allow the water a longer time to expand into steam.

At

http://www.dehyds.com/index.html

the white paper on Understanding Standby Power Energy Penalties will provide some information as to why a crankshaft engine is a poor choice for mobile vehicles. If things go well I should get to do my garbage truck testing in July. This should provide more data about standby power penalties.

Ed Danzer

http://www.danzcoinc.com

http://www.dehyds.com

 

[Dan320]

Amizio,
Obstacles are meant to be conquered. Good Luck,

Dan

 

[Azmio]

Brian,

Nitrogen is a bad thing to have in the combustion chamber, by getting rid of the nitrogen, you will eliminate the possibility of NOx. Without any worry for NOx, i can raise the flame temperature slightly higher for more complete burning. Furthermore, I dont like the idea of having to compress nitrogen, it's just a waste of energy. Instead, residual gas that is made of CO2 and water in the case of oxy combustion is a much better choice.

Go the my oxygen slide where I quoted 0.3 Nm^3/kWhr to produce oxygen. I talked to my colleagues who design petrochemical plant process about the high power consumption in producing oxygen. She was surprised because she told me that it's not so if we do it in mass production. As i wrote earlier, by switching from air to oxygen, the operation cost for furnace and boiler is reduced by 30%.

As for the oxygen storage, oxygen has a much higher density than methane, so you can store a lot of oxygen in the same natural gas composite tank.

Frankly, I wont worry much about the energy investment required because there is plenty of energy that we can obtain if we minimize heat from being rejected to the environment.

 

[patprimmer]

I think the resins normally used for CNG tanks might be prone to spontaneous combustion in the presence of pure oxygen under high pressure.

Regards
Pat
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[Azmio]

Dan,

That's what I thought too. I have worked in both production and research. While I'm wearing my researcher hat now, I worry less about the minor engineering challenges and concentrate more on achieving my research objectives.

When I was faced with 2800K cylinder temperature, it took me 2-3 weeks to find a solution to the overheating problem. I finally solved the problem by injecting water and this opens up the opportunity to maximize the combustion heat absortion. Water also enables me to recover the remaining energy escaping through coolant and exhaust gas.

Voila!! an exhaust gas of 40-50 Celcius and a car without any radiator. Sadi Carnot will be glad to hear this if he is still alive.