I asked this question before in the past, but now I need to know.

[Lenny123]

I have designed and received a patent for a ZERO FLOAT VALVE for the internal combustion engine. I noticed that at two key points in its operation that it could actually capture lost energy during the exhaust stroke of the engine. I designed this for use in the commercial industry, works for cars also.
Does anyone know of any other design that can do this or is this a first?
I also like to know if anyone has ever built an engine using a zero float valve system to the same specifications as a poppet valve engine. I like to know what the difference in horse power was.

Regards
Lenny123

 

[BrianPetersen]

Perhaps you need to explain to the rest of us, what is meant by the term "zero float", because it means nothing to me.

 

[MikeHalloran]

The chances of anything being 'a first' are near nil.

At least reveal the patent number, so we might have a clue what you're talking about.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Lou Scannon]

"capture lost energy during the exhaust stroke of the engine"
Now why didn't I think of that?!

 

[MikeHalloran]

I'm guessing he's talking about desmodromic valves, e.g. Ducati.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MikeHalloran]

His history says yes, desmodromic, and that he may come back in a few months to pick up an answer.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[GregLocock]

Good thing there's no prior art.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[L4189]

Isn't that what a turbocharger does, recoup waste energy from the exhaust?

 

[dgallup]

I never cease to be amazed at the US Patent Office granting patents to things that have been previously patented or in the public domain for years. Their attitude seems to be grant everything and let the courts fight it out later if anyone cares. They don't even read the patents referenced in the application to see if there is prior art.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[jmw]

This is why many large companies continuously scrutinise new patents (or have their own patent agents do so for them) and are on the look-out for anything that may be
[ul][li]of interest to them[/li]
[li]conflict with pre-existing patents they own or with prior public domain innovations[/li][/ul]
Of course, if no one objects it is often because no one cares. This is the case with many inventions which are of the "so what?" variety. e.g. as seen on Dragon's Den etc.

What is often more interesting are the inventions that are very definitely in the "Gee, that's interesting and there is money in it for someone!" and that the original inventor then does nothing with. e.g. zip fasteners.

I guess the best we can say of the US patents department is that they've gotta eat too.
It seems to me that not only are many US patents issued without the trouble to see if they are already patented it (The US patents department obviously does rely on interested parties doing their work for them) but how badly written they are. But then, in the US, it is not uncommon for US patent attorneys to do much of their work on a "no win no fee" basis i.e. they take a share of the profits, if any, rather than a flat fee.

On the other hand the Japanese are very adept at writing patents that cover not just the innovation itself, and in great detail, but also so as to cover any possible collateral developments that may come along in the future.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[IRstuff]

Isn't this invention simply a way to make sure the valves close when they're supposed to? I don't see why that would increase horsepower; at best, it would keep horsepower from decreasing as rpms increase.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[Lenny123]

First off this is not a desmodromic valve. Even desmodromic valves use springs. To anyone who does not know what a Zero float valve system is, its a valve designed for engines that does not require springs to return the valve to the closed position.

I know all about turbos that increase HP, my design is built in.
No need for all those extra costing parts.

I don't have a patent number yet, it was just approved. 2 to 4 weeks I was told is when I'll get one.

I don't need to read the FAQ.

Regards
Lenny

 

[PJGD]

Perhaps you are thinking of something like the Charles Curtis patent: US2035222 from 1936?

PJGD

 

[dicer]

I think all a patent does is keep anyone from profiting on the invention for 7 years, less they get a license from you. After the 7 years isn't it a free for all? I have many ideas I'd like to patent, I just don't have the $ to do so.

Heres one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXIdOTkJhEY

 

[patprimmer]

The springs in a desmo do not allow float. They simply close off the tappet clearance so the engine can start and idle.

The Desmo principle has been used on looms since the early days of the industrial revolution.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

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[BigClive]

I think the patent period is more like 20 years.

 

[BrianPetersen]

"irst off this is not a desmodromic valve. Even desmodromic valves use springs. To anyone who does not know what a Zero float valve system is, its a valve designed for engines that does not require springs to return the valve to the closed position."

That's exactly what a desmodromic valve does - it does not require springs to return the valve to the closed position (nominally).

Unfortunately, reality in the form of necessary clearances in the mechanism to avoid binding (especially when thermal expansion when the engine is running is considered), and production tolerances, means that the mechanism can only drive the valve to a fraction of a millimeter away from being closed. That is not good enough for starting and idling, and that is the ONLY reason for the small springs used in a Ducati desnodromic system - to take up the clearance and drive the valve all the way shut during cranking, as someone already mentioned.

Assuming that we are still talking about poppet-type valves here, I find it difficult to imagine ANY mechanical system for closing the valves that is not going to be subject to necessary clearances the same way that the Ducati system is.

In any case, in many ways the desmodromic system is an answer to a question that few people are asking. All of Ducati's competitors in World Superbike use valve springs, and the Ducati doesn't seem to have any overwhelming performance advantage because of its desmodromic system. In MotoGP and Formula 1 cars, where steel valve springs aren't good enough, they use pneumatic valve springs, and those are a whole lot simpler and lighter than any desmo system I've ever seen. In production cars, the trend nowadays is towards variable valve timing and lift systems. The variable timing bit is as possible with desmo as it is with valve springs, but variable lift - or even two-step lift like Honda VTEC - would present some interesting design challenges.

 

[patprimmer]

Brian

I am not sure the design is such a problem as is the extreme precision and synchronisation required in manufacture and maintenance.

I have always thought the tappet clearance springs could be replaced by a hydraulic device built into a closing cam follower.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[Lenny123]

Okey heres a copy of one of designs drawing. I have explained how it functions. Let me know what you think.

 

[PJGD]

Fail.

A team of good automotive engineers would run away from this concept....

PJGD