Im thinking of changing employers

[ttm12372]

Hi, I am a recent college grad and contemplating if i should work for a small or big aerospace company.

The large aerospace company is Lockheed Martin, I'll be given the opportunity to work on the shuttle and eventually the CEV. However, If i work for LM ill be employed as an anlyst in the thermal dept.

On the other hand, I can work for a smaller aerospace company that provides the same 401k, insurance etc as LM but will be working on rotorcraft. Working for the smaller company will give me more responsiblities such as design, all analyses(thermal, vibration, stress etc) The smaller aerospace company will pay me aprox 6k more and living cost is alot less.

I am leaning towards the smaller aerospace company . But I wonder...

If i go with the small aerospace company, will I be giving up an oppurunity that could be better careerwise?

 

[ctopher]

From my experience, working with the bigger company will open a lot of doors within different disciplines and will make it easier for you to move to a smaller company (if you need to) because of the experience.
LM is usually hard to get in to, unless you have a degree and experience or you know someone there. If you pass them up, you may never get back.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 3.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[KENAT]

I'd be tempted to go with the small company but ctopher may be right about the LM opportunity not coming up again.

Which field interests you more, space or rotorcraft.

Small and large companies probably had their own disadvantages.

I started in small UK aerospace/defence company and am now in a medium sized semiconductor/metrology company. For me the small company was a lot better but each situation is different.

 

[GregLocock]

Why would LM be hard to get into at a later date?

The rotorcraft firm sounds much better to me - your first few years out of uni you shouldn't be worrying about stability or long term job security, you need to be gaining wide experience.

6000 bucks wouldn't be a deal maker but it sure doen't hurt.

FWIW I've worked for profitable companies with a secure long term vision for 18 months out of 24 years

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[atlas06]

"living cost is a lot less"

That's the clue right there, cost of living is less, therefore small town, single employer in the field, etc.. if moving to a place that has one employer in your field, when times get tough, watch out, it's not that easy finding another job.
Look at it from a life perspective instead, life may be boring in places with cheap cost of living, if life in small town (or medium size town) is not your kind of fun, you're better off staying away from it. Don't look at the money, it'll come, in one area or another.

 

[Heckler]

Greg,

Unless you work for a LM subcontractor or hold some other special skill like PhD is optics then it is harder to gain employment at the senior level verses entry level. LM likes to hire new grads (cost less) and they use their "old timers" to mentor them. I left LM in good standing and tried to get back in a few years later....no dice since I didn't go to a subcontractor but instead left aerospace for semiconductor equipment. I had a few people pulling for me but no dice.

I also had a friend that left shortly after and also tried to get back in design but had to settle for a job as a systems engineer.

I was a ME in structures and mechanisms.....the thermal, stress, dynamics, and mass properties guys/gals were in the opinion of my IPT Lead just glorified clerks that didn't really do any real hardware design. I personally would go for the smaller company where you will learn a lot and be responsibile for much of the design and analysis.

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 3.0 & Pro/E 2001
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[IRstuff]

I would recommend the smaller company:

> You're still young; the range of jobs that you'll get at the smaller company per unit time will probably be greater than at a larger company
> Save enough to live on if you do get laid off
> Being younger makes it easier to move on from a smaller company
> What's the big deal about working for LMC? 30 yrs in aerospace/electronics, and I've yet to come close to working at LMC. Did time at MDC, Fairchild, NGC, Boeing, etc.
> LMC has a reputation of being a bit of a sweatshop, anyway..

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[ctopher]

All good points. Go with your instinct. It's your final decision.
I started with a small company, worked up to a bigger company, back down again, now back to a big company.
It works out to whatever your lifestyle is.
You're still young. Be a good employee, work hard, and it will work out to your liking in the end.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 3.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[MedicineEng]

I would go for the small company. It will give you a much more broad view how companies really work. In a big company you will be assigned a cubicle and everytime that you try to do something different from the assigned, you get someone saying:"It's not your job, so go back to your cubicle".
For a fresh grad the small company will give much more experience in many more areas. You will be "the man of the seven instruments" but as learning experience will be priceless (unless it is runned by a grunted old engineer that tried to have his son picking up the business and all he wants to do is get drunk and be in university for the next 15 years)...

 

[mechengdude]

Congratulations on your opportunities both sound good.
The real question isn't the company it’s the people there, their knowledge, and the resources you will be given to work with.

I worked for LM early on and it was great. Got to work with all sorts of smart people, had great tools like SEM, all the latest analysis tools, had a great mentor etc. It also gives you a little "wow" factor on the résumé. I do agree with the others though that at a smaller company you will be a able to do more varied stuff.

The key at the smaller company is how small are they? What I mean is, if you will be doing all sorts of analysis, design, etc., who will be mentoring you. If they do not have depth in the department you are hiring into then lookout. If they do then great go get that great experience with them.

Good luck...whatever choice you make will be the right one for you.

 

[TheTick]

I'd go with the smaller company on this one.

My rule-of-thumb for first employers: a company or division large enough that it must run with professional discipline, and small enough that you can change hats often, be exposed to many different things, and generally not be "pigeonholed".

Smaller companies typically offer better opportunities for all-around design.

Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.

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[JMirisola]

I've worked for a large company and small companies. In the large company you tend to just be a "number"; just another cog in the wheel. At smaller companies, you have greater opportunities to "shine", as it were. You're less likely to be pidgeon-holed in a small company as well, which will give you the latitude to try out differenct disciplines. It'd be a no-brainer for me. If the benefits align, and making more $$ *and* the cost of living is less...the small company for sure.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP2.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

 

[65Roses]

For what it is worth....

I co-oped at LM and was offered a job upon graduation. I turned it down. Seven years later I interviewed at another LM location and was offered a job. I originally applied for the job via the company web site and never heard anything. I got the interview because I knew a recent grad they hired and he told his manager of my former work history at LM.

Why is my handle 65Roses?
Please visit

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[ttm12372]

The small company has about 5 engineers, with 1 chief engineer. The chief engineer has been with boeing, lockheed martin, lots of major aerospace companies for over 30 yrs. the chief engineer would of course be my mentor.

 

[Ashereng]

I like to keep things simple.

If one job opportunity looks better than the other one "today", that is what I go with. I can't predict the future. Anything that "may" happen in the future may also "not" happen.

The job pays more in an area with lower cost of living is good. All else being about the same, I go with the smaller company. The opportunity to do something in the future - well, that may or may not come to light.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[SomptingGuy]

Do not assume this chief engineer is going to stay forever. Especially since, as you say, "lots of major companies over 30 yrs".

 

[EddyC]

Although I've never worked in Aerospace, my experiences with small companies has been poor. The ones that I have worked for have tended to be "chop shops" (ie...no mentoring, no QAQC, unqualified workers and a general attitude of "our design mistakes will be covered by our insurance"). Tread carfully.

 

[KENAT]

To counter Eddy C, the small company I worked at took quality very seriously. The medium one I'm at now it's a joke.

While there may be certain trends if you did a big enough survey I'm not convinced theres a 'one size fits all' answer over whether the small or large company is better.

For different people in different circumstances either may be best.

 

[Ashereng]

To add to Kenat's comment:

There are good and bad small companies.
There are good and bad medium companies.
There are good and bad large companies.
and so on.

There are a lot of factors that go into making a situation enjoyable, fruitful and technically advancing. You need to evaluate them to suit your own needs. And then, you need a bit of good luck to find the company that fits the bill.

Good luck.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[foxbat1979]

I have found that having a "mentor" of sorts is a great thing when you start your career in engineering. It really was a big help for me and really accelerated my learning curve.

Since you're still very young, go with the job you have the best feeling about. Job-security can be better at bigger companies but at a smaller company you'll probably get much more freedom and resposibilites.

Solidworks 2006/DBWorks 2006 user