Important job applicant skills 5

[franzh]

I was recently on a job interview panel listening to job prospects. I was dismayed at the quality of candidates, (we were looking for a BSME minimum, with emphasis on engine combustion studies).

I was not especially displeased at their academic performance, however their presentation appearance (not professional looking, ie: jeans, shirts not tucked in, no ties, no jackets, several not having shaved recently), but overlooking that, their communication skills were abhorrent. I couldn’t get an answer without the “’know what I mean” or “see what I’m say’n” in almost every sentence. I frequently work with college graduates and understand their dress styles and lack of funds to buy professional clothing for job interviews. In what should be the most important step of a college graduates career, appearance is critical.

This job offered premium compensation (starting at $45,000 USD with benefits), moving allowances, spousal job relocation assistance, but we were looking for 3.5 GPA or better candidates. The client offered $10,000 more for either a MSME or a BSME with an MBA. Note that this is the starting offer and the client frequently worked up from this point. I saw one PhD. (28 years old) receive and accept an offer of $72,000, but he was a 4.0 GPA with relative study experience. He was very professional in both his appearance, presentation, academics, and a former US Army officer (undergraduate while in the US Army).

After the interviews were concluded, we compiled our worksheets and noticed a common thread: The candidates who presented better verbal and communication skills and first impressions but not as well in their skills areas scored higher than poorly prepared (visual and first impression candidates) who had better GPA’s and relative skills. Applicants from outside of the US seemed to have more concern on their presentation appearance than US students (I am in the US). Former military scored better than the general applicant.

When I was teaching full time, we conducted mock job interviews and critiqued our students in all areas. Towards the end of my program, I began to notice a definite change in personal concern for appearance and applicant apathy. At one point, I began to wonder if they just don’t care if they get the job.

Care to comment?
Franz

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[HgTX]

Wow! You really felt, as late as 1996, that wearing a wedding ring to an interview was a risk? Scary. What kind of company/job?

I know very few engineers who aren't married.

Hg

 

[Speedy]

Body language is also very important!
Folding your arms in a defensive manner etc.
It also helps to smile.
People also form an impression in the first few minutes.

The biggest help to me over the years was when I actually interviewed somebody myself. Apart from technical ability, to be honest I would have to say that I went on a general impression. That's human nature I guess.

Speedy

 

[StressGuy]

HgTx,

Perhaps I wasn't clear - this was my senior year of college when I was interviewing for my first job as a degreed engineer. Most of my peers at the time were not married and I doubt most who graduated from college with you were married the time either.

There was, the perception at least, that companies were less likely to hire a married person vs a single person for an entry level job since a married person would want to go home at the end of the day to be with their spouse/family vs. a single person who'd be malleable to working 80 hours a week out of school.

Perhaps it wasn't the case in reality. However, it was the general perception of the job market when I was graduating. Probably driven more by those going into IT types of jobs.

Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

"All the world is a Spring"

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[HgTX]

No, you're right, especially if you were a conventional 22-year-old rather than a "nontraditional" student. Engineers fear what is different, and a married 22-y.o. is different (probably much more mature than his peers, but different nonetheless). I think it might be a slightly different question if you were, say, graduating at 30 after a change in career--presumably you'd be bringing experience to the table that might make up for their assumptions about your availability.

Interesting. 50 years ago women were expected to quit their jobs when they got married--not only because they had husbands to provide for them and thus the jobs should go to others, but because it was assumed they'd make their families their priority over work. How lovely to see that this bad attitude on the part of employers is now equal-opportunity.

Hg

 

[mshimko]

Impressions Matter!

There are some companies where impression does not matter, some hiring managers, and perhaps even some industries. But in general, we hire who we feel will be the best "fit" in our company, and that includes interfacing with customers. I expect my employees (engineers) to be able to talk and write, and also to make a good initial impression, both on me, and on my customers. Those who are very capable technically, but don't make a good first impression, may not get a second chance if they ever meet the customer.

What is the appropriate attire does vary place to place, and I like our "casual Friday's" as much as the next guy. But if I'm conducting an interview, I wear a coat and tie, and expect the applicant to be similarly dressed. I will mention or explain typical attire during the interview, especially if it's on a Friday and the applicant see's what most others are wearing.

Now let's turn it around - if I were interviewing for a position in what I hope is a solid and growing company and the interviewer wore a tee shirt, the company and this person would be less regarded by your's truely, and most likely I would find employment at another compamy.

 

[EmreNU]

I'm a newcomer to this website, and would like to offer my input. I'm currently 20 years old, a biomedical engineering student, and trying to learn as much about the industry, specific companies, the hiring process, and how I should market myself in order to earn an engineering job and then earn an MBA. It's overwhelming at times, but this topic seems to be a no-brainer.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the common trend is that applicants from my generation are dressing so poorly. Whenever I am going to a formal event, I always spend extra time preparing and wear my suit. I only have one suit but it fits perfectly and looks sharp. My friends do the same thing, as do other students that I see walking around campus headed to interviews or formal functions. This may be because of the character of the school (Northwestern U) but it still astonishes me that applicants wouldn't dress their best to get hired.

 

[EOIT]

Would like to throw in my 2-cents and pose a question...

First off my generation is not ALL degenerates, some of us do know how to shave, shower, and dress appropriately, I like to think myself included. I don't even own a pair of slippers let alone think of showing up to an interview in a pair.

Second, I recently left the military and was told I needed to grow out my hair for the 'corporate culture' because short haircuts were not deemed professional and was curious what other professional engineers thought on the issue.

On a side note I did wear a suit and tie to a plant and was invited back for a second interview with the instructions to wear worksite clothing ie boots, jeans, t-shirt, and was offered the job the next day, so dress to impress THEN dress like the rest.

 

[IRstuff]

Extreme styling, of any kind, is a non-conformist condition, which makes management uncomfortable. While our company stresses acceptance of diversity, I'm not sure they would go for someone who shows up in black leather and chains and body piercings.

Otherwise, short hair has connotations of military, e.g., rigidity. Therefore, it may or may not be the message you want to convey. It's really a question of how much you want to fit in, if at all.

TTFN

 

[HgTX]

Buzz cuts seem to be pretty popular around here, including among management. I've seen a number of men go from ear-length to 1/4" stubble once their hair started to thin. Then again, this is Texas, and government work at that. What's considered too short might depend on how many military bases are in the area and how hot the weather gets. Where y'at?

Hg

 

[BobPE]

EOIT:

What generation are you from??? I am just curious.

If it were not for short hair, I would have no hair!!!! Seriously, I have a buzz, vanity is not a big issue. I have had engineers with hair down their backs (men). Again, I have no problem and expect no problems from others.

Getting a job can be a differnet story and as IRstuff suggests, being a non-conformist applicant is a sea of comformists...well, you get the picture....

If you feel strongly about it, and choose not to conform for some reason to get the job, discuss the issues with the person interviewing you. Inform then that this is who you are and you are willing to either conform or not depending on the companies needs..(when you find a job using that approach, let me know so I can go there to work too!!!)

In general, the older managers will see non-comfority different than youngers ones. I personally do not let trivial things like that get in the way of a good product. Now, I may limit the non-conformists advancement with public business, but I will also tell them that I am doing that and why...I have had meetings with top clients with Jr. staff with nose and lip rings...But I feel comfortable as a leader and feel I can make things like that work....When it comes right down to it, I respect the talent of a person and work to make the non-conformity we all have in us work to the betterment of the project.

You wear slippers and stink....well...that is not non-conformity...lol

BobPE

 

[HgTX]

I woulda thunk that a more conservative older generation who dislikes nonconformity would really go for a military look.

Hg

 

[franzh]

For those that are concerned, no where do I imply that this generation is degenerate. In the recent interviews, ALL of the applicants were under 35

I often felt that my generation had an exclusive right to that title, at least, that's what my father told me!

Was it Plato that once stated that the "Youth of today will be the ruin of us all!" Hmm, that echoed through my fathers house more than once!

Whatever generation I am in, certainly not the "X", "Y", or "Z", but one of the "Baby Boomers".

Franz

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[HgTX]

What came between Baby Boomers & GenX? The generation labels seem to be getting more frequent. In MY day, we didn't all have to have our own generation label!

Hg

 

[mshimko]

The issue of hair length (for males, at least) comes and goes.

When I left college, more than a few years ago.....ALL had long hair except those in the military. At the same time, a career in the military at that time was not looked at fondly by most of society as Vietnam was winding down.

Years later things began to change, and military service finally again became something to be proud of.

Today, I find it hard to believe that some would recommend NOT having short hair so as to NOT be perceived as related to the military. Of course, I'm now retired military, and still work indirectly for DOD, so I readily admit that my situation can't be construed as typical everywhere else. Also, my receeding hairline has absolutely NOTHING to do with this view

 

[Sparweb]

When picking your wardrobe for the interview, ask youself if you would be denied the job if you dressed too well?!?!

If you don't know anything about dressing well, like I did in college, go to a men's clothing store and they'll set you up. Tell them it's for a job interview and any good salesmen should be smart enough to set you up with something affordable. If not, go on to the next store.
My experience doing so got me one suit that works in a variety of situations where dressing up is necessary.


Steven Fahey, CET
"Simplicate, and add more lightness" - Bill Stout

 

[EOIT]

BobPE: Don't really know what generation I am suppossed to be from, it seems like every graduating class has a new one but I was born in the early 80's if that helps.

Well I decided to try to go about half way and grew my hair out about an inich longer than normal, went to a men's clothing store, like SparWeb said, and they set me up with the suit, shirts, and ties, went on a bunch of interviews and landed a good job in Texas about halfway between Dallas and Houston. No military bases around and non of the people I work with have ever been in but they seem receptive so that is a plus.

Would like to say that over dressing is never a problem unless you were told otherwise. Steel toe means steel toe and buisness casual is up to anyones interpretation

Happy new year all.

 

[HgTX]

Born in the early 80s? And you've finished your military service *and* a college degree? Efficient!

No military bases around? Fort Hood can't be but a couple hours away--"down the road" in Texas terms! Go ahead and go back to the dog clippers unless you've decided you like having hair.

In civil engineering circles, cowboy boots seem to be acceptable professional wear around here. I ain't going there, though.

Hg

 

[EOIT]

Yeah thought about the shorter hair again, boy it is annoying having to actually have hair, sorry to all of you without any...

But cowboy boots are 'in' here as well. Kinda different and I have thought about getting a good pair to wear around but we will see. I have heard they even have acceptable steel toed ones for industrial settings

On another note for personal apperance shaving is a good thing and beards are okay, but inbetween looks unkept and somewhat sloppy. Coming from military with a shave always rule I didn't really notice it till I got out and now can't believe that people will go into work without having shaved for 2-3 days and then shave and let it go...

Is this just me or is it the new norm. Of course they always do it for planned buisness meetings, but what happens for ones called out of the blue.

 

[HgTX]

Yeah, the steel-toed cowboy boots are real, and you can get a hardhat shaped like a cowboy hat to match, though I haven't seen one of those on anyone I take seriously. I'm guessing a steel-toed cowboy boot isn't a bad idea on a ranch either, and that's the demand that drove the product, rather than the industrial types who just won't give up their pointy boots. (Though those guys are pretty hard-core; one of my inspectors used to bend up the sides of his full-brim hard hat to look more like a cowboy hat because they wouldn't let him wear a cowboy hardhat.)

I haven't noticed a lot of beard shadow even in this jeans-friendly environment. But then I might just not have noticed.

Hg