Improving my circumstances - feel pigeon-holed 8

[sms]

In the US it is considered very bad form to ask someone their salary. However in may companies the salary brackets for various positions up to and NOT including management are often public knowledge. So If you are an Engineer 1 and you want to know what an Engineer 2 makes so you can look forward to it that may well be possible as HR may have published it some place.

The govenment also does not keep this info secret and you can google GS salary and find out what the government engineers make like here...

http://www.opm.gov/oca/07tables/html/gs.asp

I think Salary.com uses this government info as well.


"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[Gymmeh]

evil,

Just work for the Gov't, they get pritty nice pay...

side note: I love how they have a 60 page definition of Mechanical engineer!!!

 

[MechanicalChef]

Get your resume together, start applying for jobs, and get out. Salary.com might not be a *great* reference, but an engineer making a $30k range salary, with a MS, even with zero experience, is absurd. And since your area doesn't offer you any horizontal mobility, that's what's holding you back. You have the potential to not live like a poor-man. This "community" will forgive you.

 

[KENAT]

40k Does sound low, though depending on what industry and where you are... That said in your first post you say you're down 10k and in the second you say you'd like 40k, are you making as little as $30000 a year? That sounds very low.

How about working out of town during the week and going home at weekends.

It sucks for various reasons but it's what I'm doing till I can get a job nearer home.

Some places Mikes fantasy more or less happens, but it's probably pretty rare.

Did you not ask about pay raises when you joined/interviewed? Pay raises are typically yearly unless associated with promotions/more responsibility. However new employees, especially new grads sometimes get reviews after 6 months or so and can get a raise then.

If nothing else I'd at least find out this type of information.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[tripleZ]

How small is the town? Seriously. We just lost an engineer a few months back because he and his family were unable to sell their house in their previous town (very small, very Mayberry-ish with few industries left). He simply couldn't afford to pay rent AND a mortgage. If you don't want to leave town due to ties, I think your options are really limited, especially if the market has fewer positions than applicants. If you do seriously want to consider leaving the town, I'd encourage you to look at finding ways to sell the house prior to looking for another job (assuming you'd commit to making a move to a different locale). Assuming you find a job more quickly than you find a buyer, you could find yourself stuck in a position you can't get out of without taking a loss on the home.

I just think you have a few more things to look at than just salary.

 

[Gymmeh]

Star to triplez, great strategy for moving!

 

[evildopey]

The town is a University Town with a few industries. I actually got my MSME from here. The town population is around 30,000 people. It's not Mayberry, but it's no Metropolis either. I am having a difficult time in searching for jobs here.

 

[MechEng2005]

I believe I recall being told in college that the non-compete agreements wouldn't really hold-up. I suppose that depends on local laws and practices though.

A salary of 30k-40k with a master's does sound low... Again, depends on your circumstances, location, etc.

It is always difficult to negotiate compensation based on what is available elsewhere...

Opt. 1 - Talk to your boss based on "research" for competitive salaries. The more specific, the better. If I argued that I should get a raise based on what people in Boston make (one of highest cost-of-living cities in USA), my boss would dismiss it immediately. The downside is that if your boss disagrees, it could put a strain on your working relationship and make him/her expect that you are planning on leaving. The boss could then make work less enjoyable (giving you only monotonous tasks, etc).

Opt. 2 - Go out and apply/interview and try to get offers in the area. You can then use this information to decide if you are well compensated based on your location, experience, etc. Sometimes even just looking through job postings will give you some idea, as sometimes a salary range for a position is given even before the offer. This option allows you to gather and compare relevant salary information, and if you would like, you could use this as a negotiating tool for a raise and stay with your current company. However, perhaps you should also review what advancement opportunities are available before turning down an offer any other job. As far as the non-compete agreement, you don't have to tell your boss the name of the company or location. It doesn't matter if you end up staying there or not. Just saying "I have an offer that I feel is much better than my current compensation," is all the boss needs to know. Also, I wouldn't give a $$ number in negotiating. Other factors play a role as well (vacation time, insurance, etc). Just say you have an offer that you feel is better and negotiate ALL items from there. I personally would prefer an extra week of vacation to a $1000/year raise...

 

[Gymmeh]

I agree with MechEng.

To add to MechEng.

If you tactfully ask for a raise;
Even if you don’t get an immediate raise, if your boss is cool and he likes you, he should explain your expected pay raise upon a positive annual review, and probably say tell you flat out what the deal is to keep you from jumping ship.

just remember not to show any sign that you may be looking elsewhere, you may end up moving before you have a chance to get your ducks in order.

If your Boss isn't cool,MechEng's Opt.1 will probably apply...and you will want to find another job anyway

 

[stanweld]

evildopey,
In your case, the non-compete clause is unenforceable. Slavery was outlawed in the USA some time ago as I recall. There have been legal rulings in this regard.

My advice is, dust off your resume and search for a new job in a new location. You're young and life is too short to pigeonhole yourself in a stagnant environment, regardless of how much you presently enjoy your community. New experiences in work and living location are rewards in themselves.

 

[tripleZ]

University town of 30K? It's not really surprising that you're having a tough time...no offense intended here of course. University towns are great incubators for businesses. You're in close proximity to R&D, you've got grad students looking for projects or research topics for a thesis, etc. And they work really cheap! There's almot always an ample supply of fresh grads. This being the case, there is always someone new, and always someone hungry for experience vs. pay...especially many of the foreign grads looking for a ticket in to the US.

My gut feeling is that you've got a tough road ahead, and may really need to consider moving for a significant pay increase. Good luck with this one. And for the record, I loved my old college town (Blacksburg, VA). But to be honest, spend two weeks in DC if you're an urbanite and the desire to live in the boonies quickly fades. You may find the same. But then you may go from being an urbanite to dwelling in a Midwestern cornfield like me...the stuff you'll do for career advancement sometimes will amaze you.

 

[vesselfab]

I just hired a new grad with no experience

paying 60K with full benefits to start

 

[Gymmeh]

Vessel, need another ME?

triplz, I completely agree, areas around colleges are great for business but can be hard to start off as a fresh grad. I have found that in my area they companies have an abundance of free eger engineers so they can low ball or hire interns. My school even has ME's have to do a final project which many local companies take advantage of by having students do design work, although some- like myself- get to apply for a US patent though program so it looks good on your resume.

 

[vesselfab]

Y'ALL just need to come to houston

fluor, bechtel, kbr, jacobs, parsons, mustang are all loaded up with work and not enough people to go around.

they are having job fairs and stealing people back and forth

sure is good for bumping up the rates

 

[ChrisConley]

My advice (late and lost in the pile) stay away from salary sites.

If you are making enough money that you pay your bills, enjoy life and are 'doing ok' what does it matter if someone is making more?

You know what I heard? Doctor's make more than engineers! I could get upset by this, or I could appreciate that I make enough money to be happy in a job I like.

Generally speaking, whenever people complain about the money they're making the real issue is that they aren't happy doing the job they are doing, but they feel that somehow an additional 15% would make everything better.

I recommend (like everyone else) weigh the balances of your life and ask yourself questions like:

1) Would I uproot myself and family for $100 more per week? How about $300 per week? How about $1000?

Find your 'magic' number, it's different for everyone.

 

[vesselfab]

Chris, it's supply and demand and your salary is what you are selling your services for.

for a person coming from Podunk, USA where 40K is the norm and interviewing in a booming Metropolis where 90K is the norm, would you not think it is good to know what you are dealing with up front?

Why sell yourself short just because you did not know the the new employer would pay 25% more and be happy about it?

 

[evildopey]

It's enough to pay the bills, if going on a dual income. However, approaching our 30's, we decided it's time to have children. We are paying bills and saving maybe $100/month. Budget is tight, but manageable. When we have children, I don't know what we would do because she'll have to miss a few months for work. That's my problem. I don't even make enough to raise kids and provide for my family on my income. That is one of my career goals. To give my wife the option not to work.

 

[Gymmeh]

Well, you really need to get on your horse, if you want to have kids soon.

 

[IRstuff]

Not necessarily. My first kid was born when I was 36, and 2nd was at 42.

However, when you do have kids, your wife might have second thoughts about continuing to work.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Jordonlaw]

Hmmm, so the real issue is that you want your employer to help pay for your kids. Maybe I should go and ask my boss for some more money so I can buy a yacht ............