inadequate EIT training 1

[nwm94]

I have been at my current job for 6 years, straight out of college. I work for a design build contractor and am currently the only practicing design engineer on staff. (My mentor resigned 2 days after I took the PE exam!!) I have been professionally licensed for about 2 years and I struggle daily for many reasons. The main of which is that I believe my EIT training was inadequate. I have a couple of local engineering friends that I consult regularly, but I feel over my head often. I try to be responsible about what I seal and spend much of my time researching my craft. Although I don't want to leave my job, I feel I have an obligation to develop properly and don't feel that I can do it on my own. My question is about how to portray my experience to a potential future employer. On paper, it appears that I have decent experience for my age because I have been involved in a good variety of projects. However, I really feel like I have developed equivalent to about a third year EIT with respect to design capabilities and I don't want to mislead anyone. The longer I stay in this position, I feel like it will be harder to explain why I am so far behind. Should I be applying for entry/junior level positions and accept the pay associated with them? I would take a pay cut in a heartbeat to get the guidance that I need. I'd like to think that many employers would be sympathetic to my situation, but I want to be careful about portraying myself as incompetant or untrainable. Any comments or advice about this situation are very much appreciated.

 

[COKA]

Would it be possible for you to take some courses? When I started working in my company a couple of years ago, I realized that I was not prepared the best that I could have been for the job that I had to do. I was offered some specialized courses that I completed, and basically that is what has been guiding me in my development. I am also lucky to have three mentors!
Don't put yourself down, you seem to have experience in other areas that others may not have. Also, if you are the only practicing design engineer there, it is because you have the ability to do the work and get the information that you need by yourself, and not relying on anybody to help you.

Coka

 

[whyun]

In my opinion, best "structural design experience" can be obtained from a small structural only firm. If you feel that you are behind in hardcore technical design skills, I would suggest you make a move to a structural engineering office.

I do not believe you should be getting a entry/junior level salary since you will be bringing with you experience from the field and resolving problems that contractors encounter. You'd be surprized to find many engineers who have never been to the job site.

After getting enough design experience to raise your confidence level, you may look into working for a A/E or E/A firm. Average salary will be higher than that of structural only firms because they deal with owners directly, not via "middlemen" typically architects.

Having a license will justify your minimum level of competency in structural engineering for your potential employer. Use the experience with contractors to your advantage. Good luck.

 

[SB63]

After 6 years and you are insecure? I basically changed engineering fields and didn't know hardly anything about this field I landed in. (Did it for the money). I was stressing out everyday. Now 4 years later I find the work easy. Back then I read everything I could get my hands on and went to seminars when available. My advice to you is to bail out and find something that you feel comfortable with.

 

[crossframe]

And never sell yourself short about the "build" side of your "design/build" experience. Whyun is absolutely right about the engineers who've never been on job sites. Overall, I think my construction experience has been the most valuable to me. That aspect alone will set you apart because it's becoming less and less common. There's no substitute for dirt on your boots.

 

[HgTX]

You're probably no more in over your head than anyone else would be in your position--if the support system around you hadn't evaporated with the resignation of your mentor. There's a good chance you're selling yourself short--or overestimating everyone else who *seems* so sure of what they're doing.

If it's technical design you're not sure of, take COKA's suggestion and take some courses. (Will your employer pay for them?) If it's general seat-of-the-pants judgement that you're insecure about, there's nothing you can do but let time take its course--or take whyun's suggestion to go to a structural firm where you can do more or less what you do now but in the safety of a herd. It's not really bailing out, it's minimizing risk while adding training opportunities.

I lost my mentor halfway to my PE. I do have a boss whose signature goes with my decisions, but I'm more or less on my own, technically. I rely *very* heavily on outside advice. Fortunately my mentor had gotten me involved in things that allowed me to build quite a network. Do you feel your engineer friends are enough support? If not, are there meetings, committees, etc., you could get involved in to expand your circle of accessible experts?

 

[whyun]

One more recommendation is to join a local Structural Engineers Association and attend seminars offered during their monthly meetings. I'm not sure about other states but in California, we seem to have it every month (except during summer and winter when we skip a month).

 

[nwm94]

Thank you all for your encouraging responses. There's some valuable advice here that I will consider carefully.

I guess I am realizing that I would love to try to make my situation work with my current employer. They are great to work for and would be very supportive to training or classes at their cost. I will look into what's available in my area.

I don't have any doubt that I can become less "insecure" about my abilities in time with the proper training, but I still have to be an engineer today. There is a low margin of error in this field. There is no one here to review my work, bounce ideas off of, or just help reduce the work load. The fact is that being on an island is probably not desirable for any engineer of any experience level. I believe my first course of action will be to explain the benefits of hiring a second engineer to my boss. The reality is that they may be forced to hire someone new anyway.

One of the other threads gave this advice: "good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement." I just feel the need to catch the "bad judgement" before it leaves the office.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[Tobalcane]

You know ;+} this brings up another question, how did you get through the PE board with your inadequate EIT training? You were supposed to show increasing responsibility and technical skill in each charge that shows you can take on the responsibility of a PE. If the PE board voted that your experience is adequate then you must have been doing something right during your training. Are you sure that your feelings of inadequacy is not stemming from the lack of knowledge but the frustrations of new challenges? I know from experience that on every new project that I embark I can already see the road blocks and gates that I have to design thru and not knowing how to. That is when my drive to get the job done correctly starts and I start to think of how to solve the different problems. All new challenges are frustrating, but that is how you gain experience by working them out.

Good Luck!


Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane

 

[Beantown89]

The firm I work for just hired a PE with no land development experience and no AutoCAD experience. I'm designer who recently took my PE exam last October. I'm a little incensed that I've been in "trenches" for past five years to get my PE. The License doesn't really carry as much weight when you get to management level at least at company I work for.

 

[HgTX]

I am a PE. I have no land development experience. It's not relevant to my job. I also have no experience with masonry or wood. They are also not relevant to my job and weren't covered in my ABET-accredited undergraduate curriculum. I happen to have some AutoCAD experience, but drafting isn't considered to be engineering work and is therefore irrelevant to getting a PE license. In civil engineering especially, no one is going to have experience in everything, and some skills that might be considered basic like drafting and surveying, important though they may be, aren't "engineering" in the eyes of the board.

If land development experience is important for the job of the person your firm just hired, then the problem is not with the PE licensing process but with your hiring department who doesn't look for the right skills.

Hg

 

[jsummerfield]

Obtain and read the applicable codes and standards. These are helpful in my area.

John

 

[CptHk]

This is just a sympathy reply.

I too have been with my company just over 6 years. We are kind of design build for small cogen systems. We are so small that I am only half engineer and half project manager. I finally decided to just take the FE Exam this spring. I have no real mentor and the other engineer has no intention to go even try to take the FE Exam. I'm not sure what to do when, and if, I pass. The work is highly interesting and that is why I stay for now.

I think I hear what you are saying. As an engineer that cares, you want to know EVERYTHING you should know and when there is no one to look up to you don't know all that you could know and that which you don't know.

When I talk to older P.E.'s I find that within my realm I actually know a lot, but the basics outside of my realm I know close to nothing. I think your concern is valid, especially because your field is structural.

 

[proletariat]

I would bail if I were you. Of course, that's been my track record since graduating in 2000. I started with a HUGE construction management company, was thrown to the wolves (contractors), managed to stay above water, and bailed shortly after because I knew I'd be locked into that industry forever if I stayed. I went to a DOT, had no PE mentor to speak of, managed more contractors, did some seat of pants design, some surveying, got the PE somewhere in between, and bailed because there was no mentor. Now in the third career iteration, I have finally found a good company (aside from plan-stamping pressure) with a good mentor, and an exciting industry. I am just like you in playing catchup with the design skills.

So, don't settle, or wait for someone to take care of you! Find your place now while you're still young in the eyes of employers. My $.02

 

[wds1]

I can relate to what your saying. I am the only design engineer at a design-build firm. I have to do all the structural and civil calculations. I have to know the building codes and I have to manage the projects. With the codes changing every 3 years it's impossible for one person to keep up on it all. We all have to learn to work together and network in this information age. My lack of confidence comes from Not knowing how others are handling simular things. I've tried to form a small engineering peer review group, which would meet once a month in the evening. I am suprised by the number of engineers that do Not want to spend their own time on professional development. I think many of us have questioned the fact that our education has seemed to teach us "everything but what we need to know". The education system is Not in touch with the real world. Professors are Not subject to the market pressures. We're all in the same boat. I have yet to find an engineering coarse or book that tells you what you need to know. If your like alot of us, you will spend thousands of dollars and hours, to come to the same conclusion. Our owner is a genius when it comes to construction. As he says, No one ever taught him how to run a construction company. He had to ask alot of questions and talk to alot of people.
It may seem like a small structural firm would be better for your professional development, but that may Not be true. The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence. It just may limit the number of subjects you need to know. Remember, part of what your going thru is growing pains.

 

[nwm94]

Thanks for all of the additional responses. I thought I would let you all know how everything has evolved and update you on the current situation.

After my last post, I sat down with my immediate boss and discussed my concerns. I told him that I didn't feel like I could continue working under the current circumstances. I emphasized that my main concerns were protecting the public and protecting the reputation of the company, neither of which I was positive that was doing effectively or efficiently.

That SAME DAY, my boss told me that he called an engineer to see if he would be willing to come in for a interview. 3 weeks later, this engineer was hired and in the office.

The engineer we hired was previously working with us as a consultant on overflow projects that I couldn't handle by myself. He has 25+ years of experience as a structural engineer and brings to the table all of the qualities that I one day hope to possess. He is easy to work with and doesn't mind my daily litany of questions.

The situation today is much more liveable and I feel like my confidence is coming back in leaps and bounds. I am pleased that I didn't have to leave the company and I feel like they are doing what they can to make me feel valued. I probably have benefited by struggling on my own for a short period. I do more independant thinking but realize the benefit of asking for help.

Once again, thanks for your comments and support.

 

[HgTX]

That's great! It's nice to hear a happy ending.

Hg

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