Industrial Designer needs help - car remote control

[SwissG]

Hello all,

I am an Industrial Designer, I design consumer products for a living. Sorry my questions may appear silly!

I am working on a small remote for car locks for a client. Users need to be able to program it (the same way one programs a 2nd set of car keys, by pushing buttons at correct intervals etc) to be able to unlock/lock their car's doors.

Questions:

Is this possible?

1)
Do I need to get specific information from car manufacturers (frequency, signals..) ?

2)
Are all car remotes working the same way? I don't believe I can program a GM key to open a Dodge vehicle, or am I wrong?


Thank you for your input.

 

[SwissG]

Thank you all.

It seems like there are a number of variables. From what I understand from your comments, it would be impossible, or very difficult, to make out item compatible with ALL auto makers. We are thus considering working only with 1 or 2 large car manufacturers to begin with.

All we'd need is the same chip that goes into their keys, and the matching codes from the automaker, and voila.

 

[IRstuff]

"We are thus considering working only with 1 or 2 large car manufacturers to begin with. "

So, then, what would be the point, since one can usually get replacement fobs directly from the OEMs?

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[SwissG]

IRstuff

That is right, they could just go out and buy a new fob, but our product is different in a way I can't reveal here unfortunately.


By the way, does anyone know how much a replacement fob costs? I am trying to get an idea of costs for this feature.

Thanks

 

[VEBill]

Mercedes Benz - on the order of $300. Plus you have to appear at your local dealer in person with ownership documentation and photo ID.

MB key, in addition to RF, also has Infrared LED for localized control of certain features. The e-key (for starting) uses coded 100kHz induction power and coded LED response (rolling codes etc.)

 

[SwissG]

Thank you. I was thinking more about the cheap-looking GM/Chrysler Dodge keys (which look like they were made by the same manufacturer).

These key fobs only have buttons for LOCK/UNLOCK; HORN; TRUNK. I can't see how they would cost more than $6 to manufacture, considering the huge volumes in which they are made.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Considering fobs are made in bulk by a number of Chinese manufacturers, I find it hard to believe that anything custom you come up with can compete in price... at best (and that's being very generous) you could create something that cost the same. Many replacement fobs can be had for $10-$15, and if you really look you can get them for much cheaper (going closer to the source).

The Mercedes fobs may cost that much if you get them directly from Mercedes (and I'm sure most Merc owners do)... and this is what they charge to key the fob to your ECU. In the end, though, it's simply a sequence of button presses and such on the car and fob to key them to each other. Nothing special about the fob, AFAIK.

It sounds like you have a solution without a problem.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[SwissG]

MacGyverS2000

Concurred, the low-end fobs can't cost more than $10-$15 retail, which translates into a manufacturing cost of $2-$4 max. That is what I am looking for, no fancy functions.


Now the product I am working on is not a key fob, doesn't remotely resemble it, and has other functions. Locking/Unlocking car doors is just a secondary function. You've never seen anything like it

 

[VEBill]

...Nothing special about the [MB] fob...

Except the remote control side emits both RF and IR. And the RC fob is part of the rather unique electronic key (coded inductive power in, coded IR-LED out).

Various outfits offer aftermarket keys, but the reports vary if they actually work on all models/years.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Geez - and it used to be so easy to "hot-wire" a car.....

 

[SwissG]

The Mercedes key is far more advanced than what I'm looking for. Many cars are still manufactured with basic/low-end key fobs that just lock/unlock doors. I bet these don't cost more than a few $ to manufacture..

 

[MikeHalloran]

Best internet price I found for a brand new OEM remote fob for a Ford was ~$75, delivered, a couple of years ago.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Sheesh, Mike, what kind of golden Ford do you have? Even eBay has certain models for <$5...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[MikeHalloran]

That was a slightly used 2002 Explorer Eddie Bauer.
Generic/ universal/ used units are far cheaper; the one I bought was the _exact_ correct part.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[SwissG]

Could you elaborate on how "Universal" units function?
Are they really compatible with most cars? How does the user set them up to work with their car?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

By "universal" he just means the plastic clamshell doesn't have a Ford symbol on it, may be shaped like a square rather than a USB memory stick, etc. Operation, as I mentioned earlier, is identical.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com