Information Age vs. Machine Age 6

[rhodie]

The "Information Age" has been ushered into our culture and economy with much pomp and circumstance. So much value is placed on information and the transmission speed of that information. Entire facets of the economy are pegged to the advances of this technology.

In high school, my guidance counselors spent considerable effort in "educating" us on the benefits of careers in information technology, "knowledge" jobs, and data management. For the most part, those jobs have been good choices for those people who selected them.

During the most recent Iraq war, I often heard the conflict referred to as the "first war of the information age".

Most kids aren't too comfortable running an engine lathe these days, and even changing your own oil seems to be a major accomplishment for some folks. On the other hand, the Internet console is a common appliance in households today, and kids learn to dial the phone before they can talk.

Most society has long shifted from being agrarian based to otherwise, so the necessity of learning certain mechanical skills has been lessened.

My question(s) are to the forum:

Has the "Machine Age" indeed passed? Are mechanical solutions becoming less relevant? Will the pace of evolution and discovery in the machine sciences slow? Are we setting ourselves up for failure by deemphasizing the value of machinery in our society? Is the "Information Age" the next logical step beyond the "Machine Age"?

Any thoughts are appreciated. If you think this questions is just plain ridiculous, please note that too.

 

[EnglishMuffin]

No. the machine age has not passed, its in full swing - IN CHINA! And when its no longer in full swing in China, it will be in full swing somewhere else. I think the Germans will always be into machinery too for the foreseeable future - its part of their national character.

 

[PSE]

Information is about all we have left in the US. Everything else has been sent offshore. While I don't think the machine age has ended, I think that due to computer control and robotics it has matured. The new kid on the block is information and it is always the new babies that get the most attention.

 

[Binary]

The "machine" age will never end because people thirst for hard goods, not just electronic stimulation. People want *things* not just information.

Therefore, there will always be large-scale production facilities and, hence, machines (PLC or computer controlled, of course).

Here in the US, though, I dunno. As everybody has observed in this and other threads, US mfg is in serious decline.

 

[chubPE]

The machine age ended in the early 60s, with the introduction of the space age. The space age is over and we are now in the information age.

Machines will always be here, as will space, as will bronze, as will stone.

 

[Binary]

Yes, but bronze & stone are no longer used as primary means & materials in the progression of society nor do they significantly impact humanity any longer. Machines still do (as do information technology and space technology). I'd argue that the space, machine, and information ages are coeval.

I don't see that this matters much outside the gray matter, though.

 

[rhodie]

I agree that to define a certain time period as an "age" is rather pointles... er, cerebral. The implication of such a definition, though, is that guidance counselors and sociologists put a calculated spin on facts, thereby influencing career paths and "life" choices. Kids only know what they are taught, and if they are taught to pursue a career in IT (because that's where the money's at, after all) then they will.

The Industrial Arts/Sciences are pretty much dead in American Schools. I think I was one of the last groups to take drafting classes at my high school. Metalshop, woodshop, and crafts programs require too much capital and incur too much liability to sustain in our school systems. Kids aren't exposed to anything that can't be presented in text and Audio/Visual form or demonstrated on a ballfield.

I'm all for a grass roots revival in this country! Get those kids making birdhouses and kites! Buy them erector set kits and let them go nuts! When they get older, let them make nightstands on the jointer and turn saladbowls on the lathe! Then have Industrial Arts Fairs so they can show their handywork off. Teach them pride in what they make, not pride in their highest videogame scores.

I am not that old (still in my early 20's) and I had the benefit of all these things in school. Not for kids today. Everything got dumped and replaced with computers, internet routers, software, and sterile environments.

...all because some liberal arts yahoos trumpted the advent of the "Information Age".

How sad it is.

 

[Binary]

The best prototype machinist and the best welder I've ever worked with were both young guys who learned the trades in high school. There are still a few vocational arts programs around but they're few and far between.

To me, that's a shame.

 

[chubPE]

Rhodie,
You sound older. I could have said all that, only not as well.

Does an "Age" really die. Although it's not worth much thought, The question still made me go back to my DeVore book and read about the start of technology, and the ages... oh the ages....

It's a fun thread, not at all stupid, thanks.

 

[Hippo41]

Europe and America have moved much of their machining offshore to the Far East, or where costs of production are cheapest. We claim to have an advantage because we handle information and finance better (don't mention ENRON or similar).

What happens when those 'low production cost' countries mature and start handling information and finance to the same degree themselves.

What advantage does that leave the 'developed countries'?

Maybe we'll all be working for Chinese companies soon!


Lester Milton
NBC Group Ltd, Telford, Shropshire, UK

 

[havesealwilltravel]

Information Technology is very important. However, by itself IT is worthless. It can definitely facilitate wealth-building activities but it, by itself, generates no wealth.

Wealth is derived from 3 basic activities: Mining, agriculture and manufacturing.

In these activities, labor transforms material into a more valuable product. Other activities, while they may be important, do not generate wealth. Service industries do not create wealth. They swap the wealth created by mining, agriculture and manufacturing. For example, lawyers, bankers, salesmen etc. do not directly create wealth.

This is why this country is in trouble. All the wealth-building activities are being closed here and moved to other countries.

 

[Timelord]

dannym,

What you say is true and I agree but it is not so simple as you suggest. What you missed is the fact that even when we move the wealth generating activities off shore, we gain a significant portion of the wealth generated because we provide the capital and therefore share in the larger profits that result from cheaper labor. This is a major driver in moving wealth building activities offshore. The stickler in this is, as the developing nations accumulate their own capital they will no longer need our investment and then when the capitalists here look for something to invest in we will no longer have the capability for wealth generation activities. When the rest of the world is as developed as we, we will be left holding the bag because the wealth building capability will be concentrated in the most recently developed countries. Perhaps our salvation will come from the fact that as a country develops its birth rate shrinks, ergo we will shrink out of existence some day. (tongue in cheek)

timelord

 

[tmc1]

All being said, I still believe that US will still be the center of gravity of this modern world simply because the US controls the 'information'. Yes, it is true that manufacturing has moved to other countries but the manufacturing processes are designed in the US and ship out to other countries which can produce cheaply. Look at Microsoft. A company that worths billions of dollars. It controls the information of making IT products. Other countries are just being made use of to produce the products and this process is not so much value-added. At the end of the day, big churn of the money still pours back to the US! How about SUNW, Cisco, Oracle, Boeing, Eli Lilly, Pfizer..etc. If you control the information you control the world. China, India, Germany, Japan or even Singapore will never be able to control the world because of lack of 'information' tecgnology.

 

[EnglishMuffin]

tmc1 : Never say never !