IRON PIPE Chemical Composition (no Carbon?) - Help determining type of Iron please 3

[AntonioCP]

Hello,

I have an SGS laboratory analysis report(image attached) of some Iron Pipes (see photo), for which I am trying to determine the type of iron. The SGS laboratory analysis does not indicate the Carbon percent... Is this possible, or must this be an error by SGS?

Could someone help determine what type of Iron (Cast, Iron, Ductile Iron, or other) does the chemical composition shown in the SGS report attached represent:

Thanks in advance for your kind help with this.
Antonio

 

[Steel Gal]

I was merely trying to give some guidance to minimize "chasing this cow around the pasture". I said it is probably not some exotic grade of steel, but simply AISI or SAE 1020 which he can look up. This picture could be ERW vs seamless but for the purpose of the question the grade of steel answers the question, not whether it is ERW or seamless. I still have my old catalogs and ASME Handbooks for reference. BTW I have done spark testing.

Sometimes one thinks too much. Just work in a steel mill like I did.

 

[dik]

BINGO... thanks there were 3 of the acronyms, I wasn't familiar with.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

Fun fact: I was once diagnosed with a severe case of AOS.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[dik]

What does the American Orchid Society have to do with it?

I'm not big on metals and metallurgy... just in passing and am unaware of a lot of the acronyms for the materials and testing... but, I like to find out.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

Deciding it is probably welded based just on the diameter (large) makes the most sense.
But a weld seam would only establish that it is steel and not cast iron. That's probably sufficient.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[EdStainless]

For clarity I'll add to dik's post;
OES is the only quantitative method listed that will measure C.
XRF comes in many flavors from handheld instruments meant only for PMI (general alloy identification, not real chemistries) to lab units.
Even the the large vacuum path lab instruments will only measure down to Na.
There are methods used in XRF, EDX, and XRD that will report lighter elements, but these are inferred and model based, not standards based.
They do not count as a true analysis.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[dik]

Thanks, Ed...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Steel Gal]

Does any metallurgist here work outside of a lab with ferrous material and get paid? No wonder the country is so dependent on foreign steel. I may be a dinosaur, but....

For all of you here the classic textbook in ferrous metallurgy is "The Making, Shaping, and Treating of Steel" by Carnegie later US Steel Corporation, Pittsburgh, PA. It can be downloaded online and explains the very basic process of making both iron and steel. While continuous casters and mini mills have replaced the BOFs (that is basic oxygen furnace) and rolling mills, from a materials standpoint the process remains about the same.

As for the acronyms posted above-

AISI - the American Iron & Steel Institute, an organization still alive today whose members were all the steel manufacturers in the United States. Their initial purpose was to establish a common standards and applications for all steel products.

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers, self explanatory

ERW - Electro Resistance Welded, term typically used for tubular products where the steel is preheated prior and shaped while red hot by fusing the sides together.

ASME - American Sociery of Mechanical Engineers, produced their own reference book titled "Metal Properties" to satisfy the need to compile in one place the data on metallurgical, physical, fabrication, and mechanical properties of typical metals whether it is wrought iron, cast iron, cast steel, wrought steel, ASTM/AISI grade steel, wrought and cast copper alloy, wrought and cast aluminum alloy, nickel alloy, zinc alloy, lead alloy, tin alloy, magnesium alloy, and special alloy like titanium or vanadium.

Each heat of steel before it was melted had a predetermined destination as to the type of product - rod, tin plate, tubular, flat plate, etc. If the heat did not meet specs, then the heat would be diverted and scheduled to another product line before being poured.

 

Does any metallurgist here work outside of a lab with ferrous material and get paid? No wonder the country is so dependent on foreign steel.

Don't think loss of engineering expertise is the cause of domestic whatever. Look up the acronyms WTO and FTA (for starters). They have the most to do with the rise in foreign ownership of domestic industries.

Way back when I was a grad student I purchased an ASM reprint of a book by E.C. Bain that I can highly recommend to anyone interested in steel hardenability concepts.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

I have a raging AOS headache right now.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[Steel Gal]

I experienced first hand the closure of the steel mills in the 1980s. It wasn't right, the fifty men I supervised worked for me very well for the most part. I was in my early 20s then and a few groused about me taking a job away from a man. But, when they found out big sister was financially taking care of a widowed mother and two baby siblings things mellowed out.

The rank and file had little to do directly with the USWA contract since it was one contract for all steel manufactures, not different contracts between USWA and each steel company. The big boys (Thomas Graham and his crew) at US Steel Corporation and the head of the USWA sold a lot of people down river. My men were willing to make concessions to save jobs and were ignored at the local union level.

I never ever want to experience such an economic situation again. But I totally agree, the WTO and these FTA agreements have trashed our basic manufacturing capacity. I haven't lived in the greater Pittsburgh area for years because of the work situation.

 

The big boys (Thomas Graham and his crew) at US Steel Corporation and the head of the USWA sold a lot of people down river. My men were willing to make concessions to save jobs and were ignored at the local union level.

The rank and file instinctively knew something was rotten. All kinds of unions in the US and Canada made concessions for no end result. The bad religion of Globalization and Neoliberalism has its origin in a pseudo-scientist named Hayek.

FTAs are only peripherally about 'free trade', they are about corporations going where they want, to operate how they want. Wherever labour and environmental standards and regulation and taxation are minimum.
Cf. 'race to the bottom'.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[Steel Gal]

Amen, brother. No wonder my resume looks like a trip around the world.

 

[weldstan]

I don't know how or where the scrapped pipe will be remelted but I would assume by electric melt in which case the carbon content is somewhat immaterial. I would assume the remelter would like to know the Mn, Si, S and elements that will not be reduced during remelting like Cu and Ni. It's more than likely that the pipe is API 5L-X52 or foriegn derivitive thereof.

With an OES chemistry of residual elements, in the distant past, I could define which mill the steel was made in the USA in fully integrated mills.

 

[EdStainless]

SGal, I can commiserate with you. I however was fortunate enough to avoid basic steel and stay in specialty alloys (not really through any great plan of my own). It hasn't been smooth but it has been domestic, and some of the jobs were great, right up until they ended.
I have been doing consulting work, and surviving. Right now working with a startup with no money, but very interesting. If it gets funding I am good.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[Steel Gal]

Weldstan, you made a great point I forgot about regarding residual elements and identification by mill. For the curious, I worked at J & L Steel Aliquippa Works. Did my corporate operations trainee work in the Blast Furnaces, and the Round Mill. Supervised in the Welded Tube.

Before that, I was an hourly employee for Westinghouse Specialty Metals playing with zirconium and inconel alloys in two separate product lines.

 

In terms of technical quality of metal products the world has regressed in the last couple of decades.
Now much of the world's scrap gets remelted in electric arc furnaces in the Far East (to protect the guilty and avoid personal e-assaults I will not name the country). This has created a new problem of excessive residual alloy content in steel products that is negatively affecting Oil & Gas, where property requirements are more exacting. More cost, more testing, more delays.
(Remember the moving company TV ad where the family sings "we're saving six hundred bucks!"?)

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[EdStainless]

Trying to by SS these days for nuclear applications with 0.05% max Co has become a nightmare.
And of course I care about Cu, Sn and about 6 other elements also.
Electric remelt is not my friend.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

Then there's this

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[Steel Gal]

I am starting a new job next week working with old fashioned power boilers and other railroad components that have and will be in public use. I am scared to death on what I find as sources of material for the repair and restoration of these beasts. Hope to get away from Chinese steel, same reasons as oil and gas. Suggestions for alternative sources of supply (especially domestic) is appreciated.