Is grad school a wise choice? 2

[jun41]

Hello all,

I just graduated from the University of California Irvine with a B.S. in Civil specializing in structural engineering. I've been looking for jobs and have been making progress but it seems like most of my prospects didn't get too far. Frustrating, to say the least.

I've been accepted into and am considering getting an M.S. in Structural Engineering at Cal State Fullerton. This school is not regarded very highly however I'm not sure of my chances of getting into a school of a higher caliber. My gpa from undergrad is 2.7 and almost all grad schools require a 3.0 and above. I'm thinking that obtaining a masters degree (and a much higher gpa) will improve my job prospects significantly.

Is going to this school and working on improving my gpa a good option for me right now? My game plan and overall goal is to get a job doing interesting structural work and make a good living for myself.

Thanks for all responses.

 

[Qshake]

Back to OP, I can offer this: Our structures group has a preference for MSCE on the entry level position. As I understand it this is for a multitude of reasons some of which are all the additional hours of coursework; confidence is much higher - though you have to be weary of the over-confident ones; typically these graduates will work independently and when encouraged to seek help will. BSCE's tend toward needing much more hand-holding. And that ties up resources which in this economy you can't afford - cause you don't have em! And it seems that the future of structural engineering is going toward the MS as the first professional degree.

I'm not posting this to be argumentive just stating what it's like at my place. Also you must hire good people to begin with whether or not they have a BS or MS, as there are certain things you can't instill or teach graduates. Additionally it matters where graduate is seeking employment. Some of us on this site work in consulting engineering, government engineering and others in the manufacturing side - each of those has it's own needs.

Our MS graduates are staff engineers right out of school and don't specialize in anything until they gain experience and prove themselves of value. Then they are encouraged to join technical societies/committees which are usually helped by current staff invovled in those programs.

I'm digressing too. In any event it should be clear that going back to school is a good thing. If you're granted the opportunity do not waste it. Apply yourself, it will help you and it will help your earning potential. Hopefully the economy is better when you graduate.

Good luck.

Regards,
Qshake

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[FeX32]

Tick,
I agree with your opinion about the 'brown star' and the such proceeding. Although, for the comments about 'dept' I can say that most graduate programs (given the student is good) provide good pay through many resources.
Thus, in many cases there is no dept at all in pursuing an MS or PhD.
This is not meant to be contradictory, just an additional comment for readers.


Fe

 

[beej67]

I don't really think GPA means much in terms of employment opportunities, so if you're just doing it for GPA you might be misguided. On the other hand, in today's market I tell every graduating Civil Engineer to go get their masters, and I tell every freshman Civil Engineer to switch majors. Unless you have an 'in' to a niche market sector that's not tied to land development, it's truly brutal out there, and will probably remain so for at least 2 more years, possibly more like 6.

What makes you believe that you'll do better in grad school if you were only able to pull off a 2.7 during undergrad? Just an honest question you should be asking yourself. Undergrad is a cakewalk compared to grad school.

For what it's worth, I got around a 2.9 in undergrad (Georgia Tech) and got around a 3.5 in grad school (also Georgia Tech). Part of that goes back to GT being notoriously tough in undergrad, but part was that I went back to get my masters after being in the workplace for a few years, so I was older, more mature, and had better work habits and time management habits. I was also married, which tends to narrow your after-class activity schedule somewhat. I do agree that grad school is *significantly* harder than undergrad in terms of time demands and course load.

Also, take GIS classes in grad school. That's still somewhat of an emerging field that the aging baby boomers in charge haven't totally grasped yet.



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[a2mfk]

I thought Beej67 was right on, and agreed with some of the other comments too.

If you can't find a job, why not? But if you can find anything related, in this economy, I'd work. Go get the experience and make sure structural engineering is in your blood and you want to do it for 40-50 hours a week.

I had a pretty good GPA at an average engineering school, but I worked hard at it and brought that to my career. I think the ability to self teach and seek your own knowledge will get you far in your career whether you go to grad school or not. I never had a course in masonry but the first day of my new job I got handed a masonry design book and I studied it hard and had some pretty good go-by mathcad calcs, and now that is one of my stronger areas. BTW, early on in your career, do as much by hand as you can. It will beat the theory into you head, and mathcad is a great way to replicate hand calcs and once you right a template you usually know the material inside and out (others swear by excel, depends on the application, I digress...)

For me, some of the earlier undergrad classes were harder than the engineering design classes, especially the higher level math. Plus, at 18-23 your partying can easily get in the way. You usually have settled down a bit by the time you go to grad school, and you should have a keen interest in the classes you are taking more so than the myriad of undergrad classes you may have blown off for that party. I would not sweat the GPA or your choice of grad schools. Nobody has ever cared about my football school degree or conversely my Cum Laude, once you have a couple of years of experience nobody even asks that stuff. This is especially true once you have your PE or SE.

Personally, I have never felt that a MS would have advanced my career. I have had several really smart PE bosses with BS degrees from average engineering schools. Oddly, I am currently working for two PHds from the rival football university, who bust my balls about sports stuff but don't mind my education one bit.

I definitely disagree that a MS is equivalent to much of anything in REAL world experience. You could get a MS and not design a simple one story house top to bottom, or properly design a steel connection. The fact is with a MS you will gain specialized THEORETICAL knowledge, some PE mentor will still have to teach you how to apply it. I'm sure it will help you, but it will not launch your career either.

However, specifically to the west coast, it seems many employers value the MS degree, especially advanced structural dynamics and seismic related course. So in that you may want to live in Cali or the west coast your whole life, the MS may end up really helping you get a leg up on your competition.

With all that said, after 13 years of experience I don't regret getting out in the work force right after my BS. I kind of had to at the time for personal reasons. Now I have a great job next to a major university (though its my hated sports rival) and am going to apply to go to graduate school while I work, take a class a semester. It is more likely to be for a personal sense of accomplishment, as I don't know if I will every directly use or need it. But the situation is just right, and who knows what doors it may open in the future.

 

[SiliconeAurora]

I've never felt a MS would have helped me too much on my career. Much like all knowledge I've learned and rarely used, many of my college classes didn't go in one ear and out the other but have merely languished to the point where I only have a vague familiarity with certain, obscure subjects, and maybe some "well I'm pretty sure I remember something about this" tidbits, but that's about it. (disclaimer: pretty good student, took good notes, did well on tests, really enjoyed labs, etc)

I've always felt that going to college for engineering doesn't make you an engineer; it prepares you for the training you'll get on the job to become an engineer. But, without that solid foundation of terms, subjects, and situations, you'd never have much of a chance at really being great.

Of course, I encourage everyone to educate themselves as much as they can. I never turn down free training, be it CPR, running a forklift, computer software I'd rarely use, or whatever else they're offering. I eat the stuff up. But I do it because I enjoy the pursuit of knowledge and want to be able to apply these skills if the need comes up. They cumulatively make more more marketable, but that's a side-benefit, not the entire purpose. Going back for an MS would be costly, time-consuming, stressful, and take me away from where I'd likely learn more - real world full time jobs.