Is it worth it to get a PE license? 27

[jadyn137]

Really… how worth is it to get licensed? All it says is you can take a test very, very quickly (at least in California). Is it really the mark of a professional? I do professional level work already, but don't really get any credit for it. I see my bosses just tearing their hair out on a daily basis regarding project troubles. But since they have the stamp, they have responsible charge. I ask myself: "Why should I want a PE if that's what happens? Is the extra pay and 'prestige' worth it?" I have to say an unequivocal no. How does a "P.E." after your name dictate to anyone what level of dedication you have? I have heard the terms such as advanced leadership and management skills, higher dedication, integrity, and creativity connected with getting a license. Personally, I think that is a load because I am more dedicated and infinitely more creative than most so-called professionals in my division. But, since I didn't pass a test that is more a measure of problem solving speed than that of problem solving skill, I am not allowed the label "P.E." You can keep it. You can keep your project problems, I will just estimate your project to within 3% of the lowest bid, write up your special provisions and provide plans that are clear and consistent with all the other documents. Why would any boss want to lose an employee who can do that for the "noble" cause of getting a P.E. license? So I can get a job higher up in the company and get bleeding ulcers and migraine headaches from dealing with the project problems? Or go to another company and get problems there?
For those of you who are doubters, I have taken the CA PE exam four times, but still have not passed the seismic portion because I am just not fast enough. I did practice exams, and finished with an average time of 3 hours with 70 percent correct. You're allowed 2 hours for the exam. Therefore, you see the dilemma. I can do the work, but not quickly. When the test becomes more of a test of skill than of speed, I might try again. But until then, I have given up on it. Besides if I were to take it again and pass, I would do what I could to not let anyone know that I passed it. They might expect more out of me than the 110 percent than I already give in my job.

 

[raffaello]

Hello All,

I'd like to drop a related question:

Is a PE *required* to practice engineering legally?
I'm aware this is hard to answer since engineering is such a broad term.

I'm a mechanical, and most of what I do is unrelated to safety of the public. Neither building nor vehicle related. If the public does get near anything I do, CE, UL or the like would have stamped it first.

I'm considering becoming a consultant, mechanical and machine design sorts of things. Does one legally need a PE in this situation?

Also, though it wasn't discussed explicitly in this thread (yet), it seems to me that the PE license was created to protect the public, and as such it is primarily relevant to those involved in the design of buildings.

Would a guy who designs wrist watches, camcorders, or dishwashers be someone who should have (or legally needs) a PE license?

Happy New Year!

-R

 

[IRstuff]

If you are working for a industrial company, you are usually covered by the industrial exemption.

However, if you offer your services to the public, you will need to get a PE license.

from Californias PE laws

6702.2. Mechanical engineer defined
“Mechanical engineer” as used in this chapter means a professional engineer in the branch of mechanical engineering and refers to one who practices or offers to practice mechanical engineering in any of its phases.

6730. Evidence of qualifications; registration
In order to safeguard life, health, property and public welfare, any person, either in a public or private capacity, except as in this chapter specifically excepted, who practices, or offers to practice, civil engineering, electrical engineering or mechanical engineering, in any of its branches in this state, including any person employed by the State of California, or any city, county, or city and county, who practices engineering, shall submit evidence that he is qualified to practice, and shall be registered accordingly as a civil engineer, electrical engineer or mechanical engineer by the board.

6734.2. Practice of mechanical engineering
Any person practices mechanical engineering when he professes to be a mechanical engineer or is in responsible charge of mechanical engineering work.

TTFN

 

[plasgears]

Raffaello,

The PE provides additional evidence of your competence as an analytical engineer. That's what separates you from others who claim to be engineers. I took a 4 month prep course, which I found stimulating. Everybody has their shortcuts. I actually enjoyed taking the EIT/Professional exams.

After the exam I didn't hesitate to put numbers on my designs as proof of practicality. Instead of changing designs I was refining designs that worked. In addition, others in the know, like employers and clients, found the PE license to be a mark of competence.

Go for it!

 

[BobPE]

Raffaello:

The short answer is that you need the PE to offer engineering services to the public. The public can mean anyone from industry, to government, to your neighbor.

The industry exemption allows engineers, or anyone else for that matter, to prectice engineering ONLY for the company that they are employed for. You cannont practice outside of the company. A good example I like to use is. On Monsay you worked for industry engineering machines to build widgets. Tuesday you lost your job. Wednesday you get a call from the company and they want you back as a consultant to help them with engineering duties from your old job.....You cannot perform those duties legally without the PE even though it was your old job.


Go for the PE!!! I would disagree with plasgears, the PE is not a measure of competence, I have met many a PE that was incompetent. It is an indication that you met some predefined minimum standard to be recognized as an engineer. Now, not everyone can meet this minimum standard, and that seperates engineers from professional engineers...It doesn't make a person engineer better, but it does make a person a better engineer....In my opinion, an engineer without the PE is incomplete. Witht he PE you can provide engineering to anyone. Under the industry/government exemption, your practice is so limited.

Hope this helped....

BobPE

 

[IRstuff]

Just a slight delta wrt BobPE's comments.

In California, consultants working for an industrial company are also covered by the industrial exemption:

6747. Exemption for industries
(a) This chapter, except for those provisions that apply to civil engineers and civil engineering, shall not apply to the performance of engineering work by a manufacturing, mining, public utility, research and development, or other industrial corporation, or by employees of that corporation, provided that work is in connection with, or incidental to, the products, systems, or services of that corporation or its affiliates.
(b) For purposes of this section, “employees” also includes consultants, temporary employees, contract employees, and those persons hired pursuant to third-party contracts.

TTFN

 

[EddyC]

6747b essentially covers "Job Shoppers".

 

[DonMcC]

Raffaello:

If you want to go off on your own and design products, there is nothing stopping you. You can call yourself a mechanical designer, list what your skills are, and perform all those skills. The only thing is that you can't call yourself an "engineer", offer "engineering" expertise, or have the word "engineering" in your company name. If you substitute "engineer" with the words "mechanical designer" then you are all set.

 

[Ron]

Raffaello...until you screw up and get sued! Then you'll be brought to task as to why you are practicing engineering without a license. Just because you don't call yourself an engineer, doesn't protect you from engineering licensing laws. That's just one aspect of the typical law.

Lawyers are not as stupid as we'd like to think....if there's a hint that you're practicing engineering to the public, then an appropriately qualified and licensed individual will likely review something you've done and proceed to nail you to the wall.

Get the license. It is only an initial evidence of your capability, which doesn't hurt. If you can't pass the test, you don't need to be practicing.

 

[BobPE]

DonMC: Designers cannot engineer anything (except in ca. as IRStuff pointed out) and I would think that would be a big problem since most everything anyone would do at the design level includes engineering of some sort. So I do not see how that gets anyone around the laws. A lot of firms don't use engineering in their names, and it doesn't stop them from suffering the consequences if they practice engineering. It can be a very costly mistake, professionally, business wise, and personally and it is just bad advice to post an opinion like that here...

BobPE

 

[Rich2001]

I do not know any Professional Engineer that has ever regretted obtain the PE license. Conversely, I do know many "engineers" that regret not obtaining the license.

I was fortunate, early in my education I co-op-ed and learned the value of obtaining the PE license. Hence, from my sophomore year I had a goal of obtaining my license. Passed the EIT exam my senior year and took my first PE exam as soon as I was allowed, sequential I have taken a second exam in a different discipline. I am currently licensed or registered in nine states and two counties in two different disciplines.

The license is a gateway to more opportunities. Obtaining the PE license is an arduous task but one that is well worth it.

 

[IRstuff]

If you read carefully on the paragraph about "practice of mechanical engineering," it does not matter what you call yourself, if you are "in responsible charge of mechanical engineering work," and not covered by the industrial exemption, you must be a licensed engineer.

Calling yourself "designer" will simply add to your woes when you are caught.

TTFN

 

[DaveVikingPE]

I just got my scores back today. Due to choices I made, I ended up taking the FE and PE bakc-to-back. I studied for six months and prayed to the Lord Jesus Christ a lot!

I passed them both.

I am the happiest man on earth right now and will continue to be so for the rest of my life.

My wife is really happy, too; especially since she won't be ignored for half a year ever again!

Was it worth it? ABSOLUTELY!

 

[BobPE]

CONGRATULATIONS DaveViking!!!!!!!!! Isn't it a great feeling...like the world has been lifted off your shoulders!!!

My advice....don't ever get off your soap box...go out and preach to all those engineers that listen and share your experience...It is my opinion that licensure, all around the world, is the only thing that is going to save our profession.....

good luck!!!

BobPE

 

[That1Guy]

Congrats DaveViking! Awesome achievement.

Speaking of licensing, in the opinion of the masses of educated people who frequent eng-tips.com, does a P.E. license negate, partially or completely, mediocre grades? I just got my license, after having graduated almost 11 years ago.

I don't plan on leaving my company at this time (but I don't see myself retiring from here either), and was curious.

Any opinions welcome.

 

[ghghghgh]

ByronT,
It will certainly help but I think at 11 years your experience will speak much more about you than anything else.

Way to go DaveViking, from other posts you've submitted it seems you're a few years out of school, just getting the FE is awesome but doing both is quite an achievment. Ask for a raise!

 

[That1Guy]

Actually, as an aside to my license question above, considering how some of the P.E. exams are broken down in the afternoon section, would it be a good idea to specify in your resume' or cover letter what area you specialized in when you sat for the exam? As in, "I'm a professional engineer in electrical engineering with emphasis in Power systems" or "mechanical engineering with emphasis in Thermal / Fluid systems" etc. The reason I ask is my current and most extensive experience has been much closer to machine design, but I took the thermal / fluids afternoon portion of the exam, as that is the area that really interests me, and where I'd like to get back to at some point in the future.

Again, thanks for your input.

 

[BobPE]

ByronT:

Just PE is fine on your resume. Some people do limit themselves by declaring what field they feel their PE represents. But, the PE allows you to practice in other areas. This may not seem relevant right now, but as you move through your career, it will make more sense. You do not want to piegon hole yourself to an artifical limitation you derived. Just my opinion....

Take care....


BobPE

 

[buzzp]

I recently read through this thread and must disagree with some of the legal issues people KEEP bringing up. First off, if you work as an engineer for a company that does not perform services for the public, it is COMMON practice to HAVE engineer in your name. Legal or not, I do not know. I have met Hewlett Packard, Hughes, Boeing, and many, many other companies where their engineers have engineers in their titles WITHOUT a PE. So forget this idea of no engineer in your title if you fall under the industrial exemption, it just does not happen this way. It dont matter because if it is against some state laws, it is not enforced and it should not be. That is why they call it an industrial exemption. In any case, I simply can not buy off on the fact that the companies I mentioned above and did not mention are doing illegal acts. It just does not make sense. Generally, the people that claim this are lacking in understanding of the big picture of engineering. No offense, but these are generally the civil or structural people whose careers almost demand a PE since most work is for the public. This argument is simply WRONG so when you here this claim, ignore it because it just does not happen that way.

Also, the government does generally take the LOWEST bid on projects. This is not illegal as someone pointed out. This is a trend that is making its way through the federal government (I work for them).

Since the OP is a Civil Engineer, I would suggest getting the PE license as there are not that many options to work under an industrial exemption as is the case with electricals. You will be stuck working for a PE at some consulting firm.

Most of my career was spent under an industrial exemption. I currently work where a PE license may help advance my career. As such, I have started studying for the PE. However, I may never take it since I miss circuit design and creating something from nothing, I may be looking for work along these lines again soon. The work to be had by electricals from consulting firms (mostly power, building, lighting, etc) is just plain boring to ME (what I have been doing).

 

[BobPE]

buzzp: Civil, structural,electrical, mechanical etc....it's all engineering no matter how you look at it. A lot of companies break the laws, as you have pointed out. Make no mistake, holding yourself out as an engineer without the PE is wrong, except to the company that gave you the title. And I think your advice of breaking the law because you deem it worthless is well....foolish.

The problem with the industry exemption that we were talking about involves when those "engineers" feel they can offer services outside the industry they are working for...illegal with the exception of Ca. That is some pretty important info to a lot of people on this site...It would be a shame for someone to read this site and get in trouble becuase of poor advice.

Good luck studying for your PE, let us know when you get it....

BobPE

 

[buzzp]

" holding yourself out as an engineer without the PE is wrong, except to the company that gave you the title"

This is my point. I do engineering work for my employer and I have engineer in my title. There is nothing wrong with this because my services are not available to the public.

"And I think your advice of breaking the law because you deem it worthless is well....foolish."

I guess if the very reputable electronic manufacturers are 'foolish' as you say, then I guess I don't have any qualms about belonging to the foolish club with Boeing, Hewlett Packard, SquareD, Siemens, shall I go on?

"The problem with the industry exemption that we were talking about involves when those "engineers" feel they can offer services outside the industry they are working for...illegal with the exception of Ca. That is some pretty important info to a lot of people on this site...It would be a shame for someone to read this site and get in trouble becuase of poor advice."

Never said you could offer services to the public without a PE. Please quote me on this if I did say it somewhere (I know I didn't).

I am sure your good at what you do Bob. However, I think your knowledge of the industrial exemption as it relates to engineering is very weak.

The info you base your opinion on is written as it relates to consulting and not engineering. I would encourage you to call your state government and tell them you work for ABC company designing products for the company and you have engineer in your title, ask them if this is illegal.
You will be surprised at the answer.

As far as bad advice, I think yours and a few others advice that 'engineer' can only be used in titles when you have your PE is BAD ADVICE. Not only BAD but simply WRONG.