Is there any hope for us entry level engineers? 3

[MetalMan14]

I earned my degree in Materials Engineering Dec. of 2002 and am still looking for an engineering opportunity. I know times have been bad since 911, but how are any of us entry level guys ever going to get experience when no one will hire us without 5-10 years experience. I have all this will and desire to make a difference in a company, but it seems that only my friends with a connection on the inside are getting jobs. I know my field is somewhat limited, but do any of you see any signs for 2004 that us little guys will be given a chance to make an impact?

 

[GregLocock]

Of course there is hope. But you may have to move house. I have always had to move house to get the jobs I want.

If you did an industrial placement during your degree can you get a job back there - even if not in quite the department you wanted? I must admit, materials engineering does sound rather specialised.


Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[rdstone]

You will most certainly have to move house. Every position I have had, including right out of school, I have had to move to "Where the money is"....
Be prepared for this...
You will have to pick a field you have sufficient knowledge in other than the specialist field you have chosen.
Its not that your entry level is hurting you--- there are several company's that hire entry level engineers right out of school.
Good luck

 

[COKA]

Hey,
Don't worry. I have graduated in class of 2001 in Materials Engineering and I have found a job some 4 months later. I did not have to move. In my class, EVERYBODY either found a job or continued school. Class of 2002 and 2003 are all working or still in school. As a Materials Engineer, you have a chance to get a job in any industry that deals with metals. What helps is work terms. If you can't get a permanent job, ask for a 4 month or an 8 month work term. I got my current job because I had leadership experience and I had 12 hour shift work on my CV. The most important thing for you is to get some experience in the field, it does not matter how long they are. It adds up! Also, it is very important for you to go to career fares. I am sure that your University is offering those.
How are you looking for a job? Are you applying over the internet? Your CV most likely won't even be looked at! You should go door to door with your CV and a cover letter and give the folder in hand. That is how they will remember you. You come out as someone who has guts to do that. That method landed me 4 interviews when other people got none. Have a good CV and a good Cover letter. You have to sell yourself. You have to have this winner attitude. Do you have a lot of experience with the interviews? You can do free workshops over the net to help you out. Try monster.com or jobboom.com
And while you are waiting, read technical books on what interests you. You can do it!



Coka

 

[josephv]

Hello MetalMan14,

Best wishes on the job search.

I would recommend a few things:
1) Call or visit (in person) companies rather than sending resumes
2) 5 calls or visits are better than sending 20 blind resumes
3) Don't spend more than 5 hours per day looking for work... do other hobbies or sports
4) Narrow your focus (i.e. don't apply to just any company or any engineering job).. apply to only those jobs that interest you

Consider getting a copy of "What Color is your Parachute?", this is a wonderful book with great ideas. Here is a link:

http://www.jobhuntersbible.com/

Final note, it looks like things are picking up in 2004.

All the best,

Joseph

 

[duck0601]

MetalMan14,

Consider temporary placement services as well as applying directly with firms. It gives you some work experience, builds a network and may lead to a position within a company in which you are placed.

 

[BJC]

MetalMan14

Don't confine you job search or career planning to engineering. Engineering school proves you are a one of the smarter people around and lots of fields need smart people. Engineers work in lots of other fields, they find it interesting and in general make more money than engineers working as engineers.

 

[MetalMan14]

Thanks guys for all the support.

To COKA,
I'm probably one of the most outgoing extraverts you could ever meet. I am very comfortable interviewing...very much myself. As far as different approaches go, I have done just about everything. Sending resumes in via monster.com and all the others, handing them in in person, meeting with presidents of companies that I met through personal ties...you name it. I'll just keep my nose to the grind stone looking for that "in" somewhere. Again, thanks for the support.

Jeff

 

[PSE]

MetalMan14,

One thing not yet mentioned is to follow up on your interviews and get feedback as to why the position went to someone else. You can get valuable information that will allow you to hone your skills for the next opportunity.

Good luck,

 

[zeitghost]

Just thank your lucky stars you aren't in computing or electronics...

Best of luck with the job search.

 

[RDK]

Looking for work is a full time job in itself.

How much time and effort are you putting into your job search?

Forget the Internet and monster job boards. I have sent off several hundred applications and only received one e-mail in return. (I have a couple decades experience, good education, good references and a professional written resume.) When I was serious about applying in person I usually got an interview 50% of the time and often got referrals to associated firms that might be of interest.

Forget the tricks in a lot of the popular job search books. Just do some basic research on the firm. Know their history, their current and past projects, and the names of the main players in the firm both corporately and at the local level etc. This is usually easy to get either from the Internet or the firm’s PR department. Often asking a receptionist politely, explaining who you are and what you want works wonders.) Also do some research on the industry, know the current jargon and buzzwords (Don’t use them just understand them when you hear them you might use them incorrectly.)

Nothing related should be beneath your consideration. It will all be countable experience and even entry-level technician or lab assistant jobs will help you make contacts and be noticed.

Once you take a job do not spend your time complaining that the job is beneath you. You may be complaining to someone who started out in your position and is thankful that they were in that position. Simply do as good a job of it as you can, learn as much as you can and




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Lorentz]

I must respectfully disagree with RDK's advice: "Nothing related should be beneath your consideration. It will all be countable experience and even entry-level technician or lab assistant jobs will help you make contacts and be noticed."

I've known three engineers who took entry-level technician jobs and were never again able to find engineering positions. One of them stayed as a technician till he was down-sized and retired, the other two have gone nowhere in more than ten years.

As you have observed, the doors were held open for your friends with connections, so if you can't find someone with pull to give you a start, perhaps you should look at other careers. Perhaps you can land a job as a technical sales rep. This would likely be more interesting and better paying than an entry-level technician job, plus offer a real possibility for future advancement.

I'll close by recommending that you read "Horse Sense" by Al Ries and Jack Trout. This book is full of practical advice on what works and what doesn't in the real world of business. It may save you from years of frustration.

Good Luck!

 

[joepegas]

Hey MetalMan14,
I agree with what everyone else says...I graduated spring 02 moved to NY from MD, took a low paying temp job at an engineering firm with no benefits...then I worked hard at my job, learned as much as I could and then moved on...Now I have a great job making much much more money at a large pharma company. Contract engineering is great becuase you can gain experience and move around and it doesn't look bad on your resume. You get a chance to see if you like consulting, designing or working at a big company.

 

[buzzp]

The generic job boards will not help you much. Most companies do not advertise for entry level jobs on such sites. Your best bet is to make a list of companies you want to work for and pursue them. Goto their web site and see if they have any listings you would qualify for. Even if they don't, find the engineering managers name or HR contact and send them a letter/resume directly (you can generally get a good name with a simple phone call and nice receptionist). You will find that most entry level engineers are hired as a result of career fairs from their college, internships, networking, or contacting the company directly. Good luck and don't get discouraged. Maybe take some graduate courses while you find a job. I would be a little hesitant to take a technicians job unless I knew there would be opportunities to move up quickly. To me this says you are not comfortable in an engineering role but on the other hand, with todays economy, others may perceive this as someone who needs to make a living and pride is not a problem.

 

[GregLocock]

Before I left home I applied to EVERY relevant engineering/manufacturing company in the country for an engineering internship (well the equivalent - a thick sandwich). I think that was twenty or thirty or forty companies.

Some of them replied that they didn't do thick sandwiches, as they were known at the time, but even then, one wrote back later to say they'd changed their mind, did I want an interview?

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[zeitghost]

Greg, what was a thick sandwich, 6 months in 6 months out?

Or was it 2years in college, year in industry, then final year in college?

It's been a long time since I heard that expression.

rgds
Zeit.

 

[GregLocock]

It was a year before uni, followed by a standard three year degree course, followed by another year of directed placements, or, as in my case, effectively starting my first 'real' job.

Inside that three year block there were also two blocks of 2 months, during the summer vacations.

The year before uni was the best bit, not so much because of the work, as the way that it showed how real people make real technical decisions. It was much easier to stay awake during a lecture on the phase diagram of steel since the year before one of my jobs was cutting up gears and measuring the case hardness depth and grain size. Every day. For six weeks.

That was in the UK.

Here in Australia we do the 2/1/1 structure you mention - I think that is good as well. It works better for the employer, they are getting someone with some technical ability, and the student has a good chance to get some practical experience before her final year. I enjoy working with those students, they are enthusiastic and willing to learn (and, of course, desperate to make a good impression!). The problem is that their first two years of uni may be immediately after leaving school, so it may just seem an extension of schoolwork. Probably the biggest single thing I realised during that first year was that uni was NOT school, it was something I had to grab with both hands.





Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[rosanaos]

I really hope you guys are right. I'm a Chemical Engineer, I got my degree in July 2002 and I'm still looking for the golden opportunity "A foot in the door". Really, I'm getting so frustated!

I was thinking on that Lab Technician position in order to gain some experience in the Pharmaceutical Industry, even when I apply for a position that I'm obviously qualified for, they rather hire somebody without the Eng. title but with 1 or 2 years of experience.

 

[aspearin1]

Rosanaos,
I too am a chemical engineer, graduated in 2001. At this point I'd advise you to settle a bit on the opportunity you choose. Luckily, I'm working, but grossly underpaid. I first applied for this position, which was only asking for an AS degree (as a temp position no less.) Now to make myself more marketable, I'm going to grad school part-time for my MS in Mechanical Engineering. It looks like they're getting all the jobs!!! If a lab tech pays the bills, go for it. If you can go back to school... I say go for that with vigor. Perhaps the second half of this decade will pan out better.

aspearin1

 

[RDK]

Almost 2 years is a long time to be looking for work. Even though the economy has been bad, there should have been something opening up.

I’d take a close look at how you are looking for work.

Are you presenting yourself in a professional manner? Dressed for office work with a suit and tie? Or are you dressed for the street with torn jeans and sneakers?

Are you presenting yourself in a respectful manner? Do you remember the names of the people interviewing you and do you address them as Sir or hey you?

Is your resume professionally done, printed on good paper with perfect spelling and grammar?

Do you have personal business cards made up with your contact information? MS Word has the templates to print them and any office supply store has the blanks. It makes you look professional and stand out from the crowd.

How were your marks? If you just scrapped through with minimum passing and a few repeats then you might want to think about something else.

You could contact a HR firm and ask them to spend a couple of hours with you looking over your resume and conducting a mock interview. It might cost a couple hundred but after all you have invested in your education its small change.

Are you geographically mobile? If you only want to work in the oil patch in North Dakota then there is not much out there for you.

Try to send out 50 to 100 resumes a week. That’s a lot and it takes a lot of research to find that many firms but the information is out there. Don’t just e-mail them since a lot of places will trap email from strangers and delete attachments. Send them on nice professional stationary. See any office supply place for coordinated high quality paper and envelopes (You can coordinate them with your business cards as well.)


Are your expectations unrealistic? In engineering they teach us how to run big projects but the reality is that everyone has to start out doing the grunt work. Nothing in engineering should be considered beneath you. No one will hire a new graduate to run multi million dollar projects.

I could go on but I think you get the idea.




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com