Is this a safe place to discuss 'sensitive' matters?

[Skogsgurra]

I need to get your opinion on a situation that I have walked into. It is about a new measurement instrument that has been advertised in a big way but doesn't meet expectations. The software is full of bugs that obviously come from 'cut and paste' when modifying the code to acommodate twice the number of channels. Also, the USB storage does not work with anything but BMP while one expects - and needs - data storage. There are also issues with PC communication and representation on the PC screen. Some data are inverted and som are not. It's chaos.

To me, it looks like this company has fired all software engineers and hired external consultants to 'fix' the migration to more channels. It also seems that there is no software manager to QA the work.

I have told this company that they need to do it all over again. From scratch. They invited me to visit them (on my expense!) and have lunch with them to talk "my" issues over. Hmm, I think it's their problem - not mine. And, I usually get paid for work like this. So I said "Thanks, but this is a bigger issue than that" and refrained from that meeting.

This week, I got mail from them again. Now, they are sending their Marketing Manager and Product Manager to Sweden for a couple of days and want to see me.

In the meantime, I have found many more quirks, bugs and downright stupid things. Also found that the HOLD function (that I used to freeze a waveform that I wanted to transfer to the PC) is reset when I connect to the PC. That rare waveform was lost before I could save it. Should have photografed the screen. But, who could believe that the USB should erase it. Not me. You?

I have discussed this with a few friends and they didn't believe me at first. I let them do what I did and they were very very upset. In view of all ridiculously exaggerated video ads on this device that you can find on the internet, it is amazing what crap you get for your 7000 dollars.

I really want these guys to do it all over again. The hardware is OK, in a way. They have overemphasized things like CAT IV/600 V but that is not an error, just somewhat ridiculous. They also tell the customers to 'connect and view' to check PWM on motors. That is also crap. Especially as the probes they use are specified for 50 V rms at 25 kHz and around 80 V at 10 kHz. An inverter with 10 kHz carrier frequency and 460 V rms motor voltage has a PWM rms voltage around 650 V. Also, the connect and view doesn't work. They can't even make it work in the vieos.

They have no idea of what they are doing, I think. Not much more than marketing people and bean counters left in the company. The situation is quite difficult. What would you do in a situation like this?

And, is this forum enough 'sealed' so we can discuss this thing without leaks that could cause damage?





Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[ewh]

Sounds like a true life Dilbert situation.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[pmover]

what benefit(s) do you get out/from this situation?

trying to design/engineer a device with non-engineers is . . . (use your own thoughts).

sorry, i'm not a sparky type . . . and cannot elaborate to the details, but wish you good luck!
-pmover

 

[catserveng]

I think you have a valid concern and unless someone openly bashes the manufacturer, is there really a problem discussing it. I'd love to join in on a discussion based on what I'm thinking this is. The company makes a broad range of test equipment, and while the earlier versions were in many ways ahead of thier time, I'm not so sure they kept pace.

I use a two channel version almost daily, some things I like, some I don't. Would be nice to have someone collect and present real world concerns. The end result is the manufacturer used to appreciate it. I had an RTD calibrator that didn't work as described. I was specific in my complaints and was allowed to discuss the problem with people who understood my concerns. The fix was not exactly what I wanted but in the end thought it was fair.

Whales tails, how the world has changed, Mike L.

 

[Skogsgurra]

Right guess. I remember when they started on the really good DMMs many years ago. We were interviewd and asked what we wanted - and we got just that. The 87 that I bought perhaps 20 - 25 years ago is still a very good DMM. The 199, that I have used for about half that time is also good. But now...

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[IRstuff]

I would think that all you'd get out of this is to get it off your chest, since there's no one here that can actually change the situation you're in. If that's all you can get out of this, then I think you should stop, at this point. While this forum is secure, for now, a simple series of keystrokes would send anything here off to the WWW, and once there, never to be recovered or retracted. That could then lead to possible trouble for the site at a later date.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[Skogsgurra]

Exactly. That's the 'seal' I was asking about. So, no more details. No names.

But, what would you do? Just let them handle their own problems?

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[MintJulep]

You should reply with a simple request for a return for credit authorization number.

If however you think that you might get some paid work out of the deal, and are interested in that prospect then you should reply with "I'd be glad to meet with the product manager if he wants to come over. You might as well leave the marketing manager home, because I will not allow him into my office."

 

[MikeHalloran]

If this is some kind of preproduction prototype, then you might be able to help by talking to their product manager.

If it's a released product, and it's even half as screwed up as you say it is, it will kill the company.
...
Belay that; the company is already dead.
The product is a zombie.
The people who _could_ make a difference are already gone.

Get your money back and move on.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[patprimmer]

I have no idea about the product itself.You where talking a different language from my point of view, however I do agree strongly with Mike H.

For a previous top notch company to degrade so much indicates a culture change that initiated from the top down.

Been there, done that. The company is dead. The current senior management fired all those who knew better so there would be no dissent when they did something this stupid.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[johnhors]

Gunnar , could you not have used the PrintScreen button to capture the waveform you lost?

Couldn't you ask for a consultancy fee from this company before meeting them?

http://www.Roshaz.com

quality, cost effective FEA solutions

 

[zdas04]

I think IRStuff hit your basic question on the head. This group is not visible to the general population of eng-tips.com or to web crawler bots. BUT, it wouldn't take much of a bust to expose it and there is no <delete> button on the interwebz once it gets out.

I don't say anything here that I wouldn't want to see in an courtroom.

What you've said so far could have been Urdu for all I understood it, the bits in English seemed factual to me.

David

 

[hokie66]

I am sure what you have said is all true...that's what matters. But if you don't want it to remain in writing, maybe the thread should disappear. Based on what has been written, Google identified the company for me on the first try.

 

[zdas04]

Gunnar,
If you want it gone, just post that you want it gone and I'll delete it (or you could RF your post and management will delete it sooner or later).

 

[MintJulep]

I may be somewhat of a rare breed - a mechanical guy that sometimes brandishes such tools.

But it didn't take me long to figure out exactly what you are talking about.

 

[Ron]

Gunnar...sounds like you have an opportunity...help them fix the system, get paid for it, and benefit from it. Win-Win for all.

I know how frustrating it can be, though.

Good luck.

 

[Skogsgurra]

OK. Even if I trust all that have access to this 'inner room' of the invite-only Pub and even if all I have said so far is true and that there is much more to tell - I haven't even begun discussing the problems getting USB finding the right port and start communicating - I think that there is no safe place to discuss anything any more.

Before I ask David to remove this thread, I would like to have your view on this:

If this discussion were to take place in the open, what is the probable outcome? Would someone protest? Would someone sue someone? Would the site as such suffer from it?

If the answer is Yes to any of these questions, then I must ask: Why?

The facts are there. They can be verified anytime by anyone.

I was trying to do good. Contacted them with my findings. They invited me for lunch so we could discuss "my issues". I told them I needed a compensation for that and was met with blank eyes*.

Are we not allowed to discuss "government"? Is this old Soviet Union or Communist China?

The only thing where I see a risk is that the Techumseh group may lose some future advertisments from this company.

Not as easy as I thought at first. Do you have any views here?



*Actually, the area manager said that I shouldn't have any compensation (it would mean travel and at least one hotel night) and implied that I should be grateful that I could meet one of the top managers in person. I almost told her that that top manager should be grateful. But she wouldn't understand.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[Ron]

Gunnar...I think the answer is "no" to all. You have not identified the company and it isn't apparent (to me at least) who that company might be. Others in your field might guess, but that's all it would be.

 

[catserveng]

Gunner,

How about posting a "first impression" type write up on the Fluke community website,

http://www.flukecommunity.com/forums/index.php

This is Fluke's public website, and not all comments there are positive. You have valuable insight, both that can be used by Fluke if they chose, and by members of that community who use it to find out more about the products they use. If the host of the site feels your post is inappropriate, then they can deal with it.

Not a perfect solution, but you have a hands on experience with a new product that others may find useful before plunking down the cash. I am happy to hear you have used it since we are looking at it for some specific troubleshooting where 2 channels doesn't quite get it. And ability to save, transport and communicate what was on the screen is VERY important.

My two cents (again), Mike L.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Top managers will change nothing.

They got rid of the internal engineers who no doubt told them they were on course to disaster, probably mostly _because_ the internal engineers told them they were screwing up.

Their only interest in talking to an external party is to assess how much damage he is likely to do, PR-wise, and perhaps to attempt to slyly intimidate him into not making a public fuss. Their idea of 'sly' is probably a lot less subtle than your own. Nothing actionable, of course.

I don't see any great risk to E-T over a public discussion about an unnamed, perhaps hypothetical, company that's well on the road to ruin.

I also see no chance whatsoever of steering said company off of said road.

So, who will gain _anything_?




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA