ISO 13715 edges condition 1

[aniiben]

Does anyone know the equivalent of ISO 13715 in ASME?

If there is no such a document, would you consider an acceptable practice to call out ISO 13715 on an ASME Y14.5 defined drawing?

Otherwise stated, instead of writing lengthy notes to define the edge condition (undercut-passing / permitted-required) on an ASME drawing, could we just callout ISO 13715?

What could be the unintended consequences you can think of such practice?

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:13715:ed-3:v1:en

ISO 13715 , Technical product documentation — Edges of undefined shape — Indication and dimensioning

 

[CheckerHater]

The lengthy quote first:
"Once a portion of the ISO GPS system is invoked in a mechanical engineering product documentation, the entire ISO GPS system is invoked, unless otherwise indicated on the documentation, e.g. by reference to a relevant document.
“Unless otherwise indicated on the documentation” means e.g. that if it is indicated on the documentation that it has been prepared in accordance with a regional, national or company standard, then that standard and not the ISO GPS system shall be used to interpret those elements of the specification that are covered by that standard."
So, if you clearly indicate that your drawing is interpreted by ASME and just the edges are covered by ISO 13715 you may be OK


"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future

 

[greenimi]

"Once a portion of the ISO GPS system is invoked in a mechanical engineering product documentation, the entire ISO GPS system is invoked.....

What that does mean?

I’ve seen Y1.4-5 drawings with cleanliness requirements shown -- per ISO 16232 --
or
packaging -labelling and direct product marking -- per ISO 28219
or
marking plastic products -- per ISO 11469

Should I understand that these drawings are not “kosher”?

To replace all of these by notes..... it is even feasible….

Just asking.....

 

[3DDave]

GPS - "Geometric Product Specification" Basically if you call out a part of the ISO Dimensioning and Tolerancing standards you are likely buried in cross-links to all the rest of them to make sense. Outside of that they may be more stand alone, but it might be some MIL-SPECs where any simple one of them leads to a near endless set of links.

 

[greenimi]

ISO 16232
ISO 28219
ISO 11469

So, what is part of the ISO GPS? Are any of the ISO standards mentioned above part of GPS?

What about the OP's ISO standard:ISO 13715?

Thank you for your input

 

[3DDave]

If you are using them you should have copies to see what they reference.

 

[greenimi]

No, unfortunately I am not using ISO GPS. Only ASME drawings.
But the "additional" requirements (such as the ones mentioned in my previous post) are shown per ISO (not sure GPS or not)

The question again: "Should I understand that these (MY) drawings are not “kosher”? "

 

[3DDave]

GPS = Y14 series (roughly, not identical. Similar scope.) If you are calling out the other specs someone there should have a copy.

 

[greenimi]

So, should I understand that if my ISO specs (cleanliness, packaging, etc) are not included in the list (see attachment) I am good to go/ okay per the quote provided my by CH, 5.1 Invocation principle, ISO 8015 ?

 

[CheckerHater]

I gave a fair warning that quotation is long.
In second part of it it says that if you specify some other standard to control the drawing, the entire GPS system WILL NOT apply.
@greenimi: GPS are standards developed by ISO/TC 213 committee and can be found here:

https://www.iso.org/committee/54924/x/catalogue/p/1/u/0/w/0/d/0

ISO 13715 is part of "Mechanical engineering documentation" group, developed by "liason" commitee ISO/TC 10

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future

 

[aniiben]

Is my understanding correct that the practice is acceptable? At least from some postings looks legitimate.

 

[greenimi]

@greenimi: GPS are standards developed by ISO/TC 213 committee and can be found here:

https://www.iso.org/committee/54924/x/catalogue/p/...

ISO 13715 is part of "Mechanical engineering documentation" group, developed by "liason" commitee ISO/TC 10

CH,
Should I understand that if ISO 13715 is not part of the ISO GPS the “long quote” you provided is not applicable to the OP’s case (because quote states ISO GPS)
Also, for the same reason, my additional ISO standards (cleanliness, packaging, marking) are not subject to the quote provided (as not being part of ISO GPS)

Is my assessment correct?

Interesting enough ISO 13715 (the OP’s main question) is shown in the list I provided (ISO Standards Collection, Technical Product Specification TPS) –list I found probably here on eng-tips.com on some other discussions about ISO—

 

[CheckerHater]

Should I understand that if ISO 13715 is not part of the ISO GPS

The answer must lie somewhere in the end of ISO 13715 standard book.
If the book has diagram showing place of 13715 somewhere here:

then it is part of GPS matrix and, naturally, part of GPS.
Anyone in possession of actual book please disprove or confirm.

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future

 

[SeasonLee]

I can’t find out any matrix table from ISO 13715-2017, and I noticed there are some changes since 2015 on ISO 14638 Geometrical Product Specifications (GPS)---Matrix Model. We may notice the differences between them.

And the changes reflected on all revised standard after 2015, following is a snapshot from ISO 1660-2017 matrix table.

Season

 

[greenimi]

Thank you Season,

To be honest I am still confused about the whole conundrum created. In other words, I still do not know if my ISO standards are part of the GPS and in the same token for the OP’s (edge condition) standard. Looks like I am lost in the ISO pool.
Have a great weekend everyone.

 

[aniiben]

Looks like I am lost in the ISO pool.

Ditto

 

[SeasonLee]

In other words, I still do not know if my ISO standards are part of the GPS and in the same token for the OP’s (edge condition) standard.

ISO 16232---Road vehicles-Cleanliness of components and systems.
ISO 28219---Packaging- Labelling and direct product marking with linear bar code and two-dimensional symbols
ISO 11469---Plastic-Generic identification and marking of plastic products.

From the title of the above standards, I don’t think it’s an ISO-GPS relevant Standards, you may find out all ISO-GPS relevant Standards list from the attached below, but it may not be the latest edition.

As for ISO 13715, it’s an ISO-GPS relevant Standard for sure in the past, but I’m not quite sure for the time being since I can’t find out any statement of ISO 13715 in ISO 14638-2015 as shown below.

There are 18 geometrical characteristic of features in ISO 14638-1995 (as posted at 4-19), it reduced to 9 geometrical properties by ISO 14638-2015 (as posted at 4-19). Angles are covered within the properties of size and distance, and Radii are covered within the properties distance and form. Datums are no longer covered by a chain in the metrix as they are not geometrical properties. Edges supposed to be covered within Surface imperfections, unforturnately it is not included.

You may find all chains link ISO-GPS relevant standards from the "GPS Standards Database" linked below.

https://www.ifgps.com/standards.asp

Season

 

[greenimi]

Thank you Season. I appreciate your time spent help us understanding ISO "issues" with the configuration management and very frequent changes.