Job offer/ salary negotiation scenario

[HVACctrl]

I have been through two rounds of interviews with a company. I just got a call from the supervisor asking me to email him my salary requirements.

I would rather refrain and let them bring up a number first.

Any thoughts on what to do? There is no official offer, but he said I was in the front running. They say they plan on hiring 2 to 3 people over the next few months- perhaps one immediatly.

I'm not desperate for the position and in fact have another offer. If I hadn't received the other offer or if it had come and this one comes at the same time I would probably choose this second one (if it comes).

Any thoughts on what to do?

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[aardvarkdw]

Aim high! If they want you, you don't have to have this job, and you have another offer, I say you are in a position to ask for as much as the market will bear. Of course that doesn't mean go over board. Just that you are in a position where you can afford to try and get as much as possible. The worst they say is no.

On the other hand you can always tell them that salary is negotiable but that can be dangerous as well because they may want you to give them a hard number.

Best of luck!

 

[HVACctrl]

Thanks aardvark!

I thought about writing the email to the effect of "I want the position. I would like as much as you are comfortable paying me for the position." sort of thing.

I don't want to sound too non-commital and aggravate them.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[zdas04]

Ask for 25% more than the other offer. It is a starting point.

David

 

[Senselessticker]

1. My first job: They wanted me to throw out a number first. I did so, and they offered me more than I asked for.

2. My second job (same company): They wanted me to throw out a number first. I did so, and they offered me more than I asked for - again!

So do they reward those who do not appear "greedy" or am I selling myself short? Regardless, I toss up the number that I feel is fair for both parties and its reflective of what the job is "worth" for me.

I personally do not engage in the car salesman approach regarding any part of my life be it business or personal.

 

[HVACctrl]

ST,
That's why I thought I would say that I want the most that they feel comfortable with- not really ask for anything in particular.

I don't like the way some shoot higher (potential employee)or lower (employer) than they really want to leave negotiation room. Unfortunately, many people and companies play that way.

Incidentally, I thought that next time I'm in the position to hire someone, I would figure a salary I want to pay, ask for their number, then, if their were lower, still pay what I intended to do- sort of like what happened to you. I bet it started you off on a great note!

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[TDAA]

You can also go the rout for "total compensation". My last change was a big one, with differing cost of living, moving expenses, change in company vehicle availability, etc.

I responded by asking if there was a range for the position, and noted that health insurance, etc was a factor to me (since it was). This was also in the early stages of discussion though, and I didn’t want to price out of it.

Result, I got the same salary, money for a vehicle, more expensive insurance (with less benefit), no 401K match, bigger bonuses, bigger house payment, loss of most of the wife’s salary (she gave up a pretty sweet gig), and a bigger raise than I would have had at my last company. I also get to learn something at work again.

When I made the move, I figure it was a bit of a step down in money, and I have pushed bak the potential for stock in the company, but I am in a happier place now.

 

[HVACctrl]

IDAA,
Thanks for the great info. With that I realized I can up front mention that I will need no medical insurance benefits (my wife's company cover us). Then again, maybe I should pull that card out later into the discussion? Sort of use it as an Ace in the hole?

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[PhilBW]

Getting the other party to throw out a number first is one of the first steps in effective negotiating. The second step is to make a couter offer that doesn't give them everything they asked for.

If they force you into step one (throwing out the first nuber), don't forget about step 2. Ask for more than you expect to get. Don't get carried away and scare them off, but remember you will end up with less than what you ask for in the beginning.

I had an old timer tell me you should expect a 15% incresae in salary when you change jobs. If you can't get that much, it isn't worth switching. If you add 10% for negotiation, that would be 25% above your current salary as a starting point.

 

[HVACctrl]

Good ideas PhilBW! Thanks

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[Senselessticker]

I disagree with PhilBW. I believe the party who tosses the first number has the advantage, but ONLY if you stick to your orginal offer. Pick your price ONCE. Toss it. If they try to counter: Politely say, thanks, but no thanks and get back to work with your existing position. If they want to counter with other options (bonus, moving expenses, etc..), then that's a different story, but you should already have the math worked out for each scenerio. I opt for higher salary as opposed to one time bonuses and moving expenses, etc... May be a little bit of a loss in the beginning, but over the long run, its much more profitable when considering annual cost of living raises, 401k contribution, etc....

 

[VeryPicky]

Concur, most bonuses are calculated as percentage of salary. Bonuses are not always reliable, anyway. Thay can be or not be paid. Same stands for company stocks. The world has seen stocks going down big time.

Putting Human Factor Back in Engineering

 

[GregLocock]

I prefer the senseless approach. If they insist you make the first move tell them what you want, and that that is not negotiable. If they come in with a lower offer, remind them what you said and point out that if they haven't got anything sensible to say then to stop bothering you. You might want to phrase it more diplomatically than that.

Typical bumps I've had from changing jobs are 30%, 0% (new country, moving expenses, and better benefits), 25% and hmm, 20%. Incidentally the last two were from leaving one place and coming back to do EXACTLY THE SAME JOB 2 years later - ie a 50% pay rise. How stupid is that? (Not that I left because of money but it didn't hurt).



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[whyun]

It may be wise to ask the salary range for the job classification in question instead of throwing out your salary requirement.

It varies by industry but your "desired salary" just might be lower than the lowest salary for that classification.

Each firm has its own policies regarding employees' salary but usually large firms have established job classes and levels and salary range for each. It is not unreasonable for you to request this info. If they don't give you a straight answer, you should wonder why and whether you want to work there.

Salary negotiation is a difficult game for the candidate side but if you play it right, it can be a win-win game. Good luck.

Mom-n-pop engineering firms, usually, salary is hush-hush. Guy who's been with the "boss" the longest knows everything, though.

Throwing out a ridiculous amount first is a gamble. They might give it to you, if you are lucky. Once, I interviewed a guy for a position of senior drafter who required a salary bigger than mine. There was no second interview. Either I was severely underpaid or he was crazy.

 

[HVACctrl]

Thanks guys.

This is a weird situation. I sent an email to him (as requested), but stated that I wanted the most he was comfortable paying given the value of the position and my capabilities. I also mentioned that I wanted to work there.

Strange thing is a would LOVE to work there, but I do have this other offer for a job that is not as desirable, but still was very desirable before this one came along.

The second company (which I would prefer) will have to move a little quicker and step up to the plate before I close the door on them. I may call tomorrow and explain my situation. I'll keep you posted.

Sucks that I got the other offer first and am entertaining it.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[bvanhiel]

Somehow "I want the most you're willing to pay" seems like the worst possible thing to say. In addition to stating the obvious, you've implied that you're greedy and don't know you're worth to the company.

That said, you can never predict what kind of response you're going to get. The hiring manager may be a master negotiator or he may just want to get the position filled and be done with it. Small businesses, where a dollar to you is a dollar out of the pocket of the guy you're negotiating with, tend to be pretty shrewd negotiators.

Confronted with the money question, I would ask for their range. If pressed I might offer my range, with a little extra padding at the top end. Do your research, so you're numbers don't sound like wishful thinking.

As others have said: there's plenty other than just salary to negotiate, so if you don't get what you want there, maybe it can be in vacation time or some other benefit.

Good luck.

-b

 

[corus]

When they ask you what salary you want then they are looking to see how much you value yourself. If you don't ask for much then you don't think much of yourself, and vice versa. If you're in work at the moment then ask for a salary at the top end of the bracket you consider for the job. As they say on tv advertisements for hair spray - 'because you're worth it'. If you're out of work and looking for a job then don't price yourself out of the job as you can later move on after you've got the job.

corus

 

[HVACctrl]

corus,
Kind of interesting what you said. They did do a personality test on me that showed that while I am confident and capable, I typically downplay my abilities and value- perhaps out of being humble? In hind sight, after reading your post, it seems like my response was right in line with their evaluation of my personality.

I think its hard to figure out what response they really want and what will work best.

We'll see what happens. I will probably follow up with a phone call today.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[ARenko]

I would've politely asked them to make you a formal offer first. PhilBW is right - getting the other party to throw out the first number gives you the advantage.

 

[HVACctrl]

Called today. The boss said he liked my response. Will get something figured out by next week.

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