Job offer/ salary negotiation scenario

[HVACctrl]

I have been through two rounds of interviews with a company. I just got a call from the supervisor asking me to email him my salary requirements.

I would rather refrain and let them bring up a number first.

Any thoughts on what to do? There is no official offer, but he said I was in the front running. They say they plan on hiring 2 to 3 people over the next few months- perhaps one immediatly.

I'm not desperate for the position and in fact have another offer. If I hadn't received the other offer or if it had come and this one comes at the same time I would probably choose this second one (if it comes).

Any thoughts on what to do?

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[RLM2000]

Good job!

In response to wyhun above, I work for a Mom-n-Pop. We have an open compensation policy. There is no hush-hush or any passive aggressive BS (you feel underpaid, you tell someone now!). When we interview someone we ask them how much they want. We always have a number in mind, but it is a test. If they stare at their shoelaces and give the old "Well, I haven't really thought about it, I think I can be of value to your firm." They lose a lot of ground with us, not so much because they aren't good engineers or drafters, but because they are afraid to talk money. In a small firm the bottom line is only a small distance away from everybody, if they don't have an understanding that we are here to make money and not to just be engineers, frankly it scares us.

We insulate our engineers from the business stuff, but we want a general understanding of the fact that money comes in and goes out based on performance of our jobs.

 

[HVACctrl]

I want to be more involved in the business end of things ultimately. I want to make a good bit of money, but I want to be worth more than that.I try to work hard to make that happen. Its hard to tell if a company wants someone to ask for a lot of money or not. I know everything is about the bottom line. I usually ask finiancial and business questions in the interview to demonstrate this.

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[whyun]

RLM2000: It's a good thing that you guys have an open compensation policy. Many small outfits are quite sensitive to payroll/overhead. There can be times when the big boss may need to dig into his personal savings to pay his employees (or forced-unpaid-leave or reduced hours, take your pick).

Another thing is, if the BOSS hires a fresh engineer and pays higher than a mid-level drafter in an open compensation policy, you end up with a disgruntled employee.

Generally, if the boss is fair, pays according to employee's capability/performance and doesn't make more than 5 times the highest paid employee, open policy works fine. In the real world, though, there is a lot of BS when it comes to company policy on salary, big company or small.

 

[RLM2000]

The big boss at our office has dug into his personal account for x-mas bonuses one time. It was something that I won't soon forget. When this office first got started I heard that they were operating on the red line for quite a while and it was very stressful. Now the only stress is execution and timelines (normal consulting firm stuff), sales are my job and I'm good at it.

You are absolutely right about the disgruntled drafter.

We recently had hired a couple of fresh engineers, both of whom in my opinion were top talent. Very, sharp guys and they are proving me right.

One of our drafters fell into this mode of saying things like "I'm not paid to do that . . . I will not help out the guys who are making more than me . . ." general passive agressive behaviour. We took him aside and asked him what his problem was, he said that he should be making more for what he did. He was having performance issues otherwise and we brought them up. He yelled and interrupted a bunch of peoples lunches at a local restaurant, we gave him a token raise to let him know that he was important and needed to improve in some areas. He quit days later and the office atmosphere has improved considerably.

In a small office it becomes so important to have the right personalities. Talent trumps all, but personality can take you a long ways.

 

[privateer]

HVACctrl,

During the interview process, when I am asked to provide a salary amount first, my standard response is:

"I have a particular salary range in mind, but I'd rather not disclose it yet. I am interested in working for a company that is 'in-tune' with the job market levels of compensation for its employees. The company I work for now is not paying what I feel is fair market compensation for my experience and skills, this is one of the reasons why I am looking. I'd like to know what your company feels is fair market compensation for an engineer of my experience and skills."

This does a few things:

1) It gets me out of spitting out the first number. I do not negotiate well if I give out the first number. Not a "right or wrong" thing here, just a personal preference.

2) It lets the company know I am serious about negotiating, and puts them on there toes if they are thinking about low-balling. It makes them believe that I have done my homework on market salary ranges in my area.

3) It tells them I am interested in working for company that is "in-tune" with the job market levels of compensation for its employees, and that I do not won't to work for a company that knowingly (and/or habitually) underpays its employees.

I haven't moved around much, but I've interviewed A LOT!! This approach WORKS!! (..for me, that is.) I've been very successful in getting what I want everytime I've had the opportunity to use it.

And remember the "Golden Rule of Salary Negotiations": You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

 

[EddyC]

When prospective employers & recruiters ask me up front how much I want, I ask them to first tell me the details of what the job's duties will be, and then I'll give a number. I no longer have much faith that job titles are a sufficient description of the duties that an employee will be performing. Of course the new employer can do the "bait & switch" afterwards (which some have done to me).

 

[HVACctrl]

privateer,
That is great advice. EddyC, yours too. Thanks to both of you.

Privateer, you wouldn't happen to be a UNO alumnus would you?

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[kontiki99]

What I would do is pick a target salary increase of 15-25% then adjust that dollar figure to compensate for differences in the cost of living in the two different locations.

Be mindful the largest raise you are likely to get at any one time is going in the door.

Get relocation costs covered too.

If it's going to traumatize your family, ask for more. Sounds like you don't want to go anyway.

 

[corus]

I think if I'd ask privateer how much salary they wanted and got back a long speech about what my company thinks is fair etc., then I'd show them the door (no disrespect). There's nothing more annoying than asking a straight question and getting back a waffle question. Incidentally, a company never pays 'fair market compensation for your skills...', it pays the least it can get away with.

corus

 

[HVACctrl]

There is no relocation. both companies are within 10 miles of my house.


corus, Many people feel that throwing out the number first is a mstake. The only way around it is to side step the question. I have been commended by companies for doing so. We as applicants can't just start off by asking "How much are you willing to pay?". Its usually looked down on.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[privateer]

HVACctrl,

Thanks for the compliment!!

I do want to repeat (if not clear before) that although the "fair salary" response has ALWAYS worked for me, I cannot tell you what is absolutely right or wrong in this situation. The next time I employ the tactic, it may not work. To borrow a phrase from my 401k portfolio, "Historical record is no indication of future performance...."

And yes, I'm a UNO alum. And I still live in the area. Are you in the area? Have you been back to the campus lately? Good luck with your decision. Keep us posted.

curos,

No disrespect taken.

But you made me think of a point. And this may be a little off topic - when I interview with a company, I'm there to get a job, but also to learn as much about the company as I can (in addition to all the other research I do before the interview). I take mental notes of the interviewer's behavior, responses, office atmosphere, workers in the area, etc. My decision to take a job is based on ALL these notes, in addition to salary, location, benefits, etc.

I've turned down a lot of job offers because I didn't like something that came out during the interview.

With this in mind, if I was shown the door after giving my "fair salary speech," then why would that be a bad thing? I would consider that to be a good thing, a "Win-Win" situation - they didn't want me, and I wouldn't want to work for a company that would show me the door for giving that answer.

I've sat on both sides of the interview table (actually interviewed candidates more than interviewing for a job) and I found it's not about "getting the job" or "filling the requisition with a warm body," it's about finding the right candidate/job match. Those situations have better chances of success.

 

[IRstuff]

Negotiation is about get the "best" deal, while fair market is about "good enough," and that's the crux.

If you want to get the absolute "best" deal then you play the negotiation game, it's a long, drawn out process, and odds are that the delta from fair market is too small to have made that much difference.

If you want to cut to the chase and get to work, then you'd do the fair market deal.

Only certain personality types revel in negotiating, because it's about playing a game. The rest of us simply want to move on.

The bottom line is that you have a number that you can live with, which accounts for any raise you want, cost of living changes, moving hassles, etc. You can ask for 5% above that number and it may be good enough that the company will accept it.

TTFN

 

[HVACctrl]

privateer,
I'm a Privateer too. I still live in the area. I lived in Houston from 2000 to the beginning of 2005.

If you'd like, go to the site in my signature and PM me there- I'm "EdinNO" there.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com