Job Price Deviation Over-Time

[NJ1]

I was having a conversation about pricing with a client and I
thought I would see what is going on with the bigger picture.

Assume a typical two-story commercial building with
approximately 500 sprinklers. Nothing fancy or out of the ordinary.
What would the price differential (%) be between what this job would
have gone for in 2006-2007 versus today?

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

In 2007 I had a 150,000 sq. ft high school I bid and won @ $2.35/sq/ ft.. We did well.

I've bid a number over the last two years and no luck. I heard of one going up around Atlanta for $0.78/sq. ft. and these are finished with suspended ceilings.

Amazon.com is building a million sq. ft. distribution center in Chattanooga and I heard the interior ESFR system went for $0.75/sq. ft.. You can do them for this but you better have a good layout tech that can do his job, buy the material at the right price (beat up your suppliers) and a crew that can really get with the program.

On your job I would guess $35,000 to $45,000.

 

[NJ1]

I hate using the $0.00/sq.ft formula. I no not think it generates the most profit for some reason but then again I am not the best estimator out there. I like to bid jobs on a per head formula with labor, materials and layout included.
I just got a job of 135 dry heads in coolers and freezers. it came up to $37,000.00 cash ($ 280.00 per head)
Would you consider that a good bid

 

[TravisMack]

It is a good bid if your labor, design, material, overhead and markup are less than $280 / head. It is hard to compare labor in different parts of the country. Are you a union contractor? Based on previous numbers that I recall, in St Louis, we would estimate around $90/hr / man to cover union wages, benefits, overhead and markup. I know some in the Florida region that bid the labor rate around $30 / hr (including overhead, markup, etc..). So, in St Louis, that $280/hd may be right on the money. In Florida, you could make a mint at that rate.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[skdesigner]

NJ1 - on an add/relocate job, there's always the intangible elements to consider. Can I borrow a scissor lift, or do I have to allow for one? Can I do the whole job from start to finish without any interuptions, or am I going to have to be pulling fitters off another job to come do a few heads at a time at the GC's whim? If I start poking above ceilings and find out the existing stuff is rotten and useless, am I going to get paid to replace it? Do I have to supply a fire watchman while we have the system drained down? How long do I allow for drain/fills?

All these things can come together and push a guaranteed moneymaker pretty darn close to the edge.

 

[NJ1]

No I am not a Union Contractor but since you brought that up most non-union contractor charges $90.00-$110.00 per hour here in the northern states.
I am just hoping i do not get burn on materials cost. Anyone recommends where to get a good price on dry heads 0-12" inches standard response. I use Fergusson fire here in Passaic, NJ

 

[TravisMack]

Shop around..Viking, Reliable, Victaulic, Globe. Things are competitive.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[chevy4x4trucks]

I did some price comparisons on dry pendants a month ago between Viking, Tyco and Reliable and Viking came back with the best price by about $2.00

I would try Viking Supply Net and see what you can do. I should note that we buy probably 80% of our heads from Viking so they may be giving us a bit more of a discount.

But like Travis said, shop around. General Contractor's and Owner's are doing it to us and in turn we need to get creative and do it with our vendors to get the best possible price.

 

[NJ1]

I do shop around and the best price I got so far is from victaulic since I have deep solid connections with them. Price I got was $ 48.00 per head 0-12" 8.0 K-factor, QR

I just think the most money is going towards Engineerings, P.E.'s

 

[TravisMack]

If you are paying more for engineering, design, PE, etc than you are in material or labor, you are getting very bad pricing, or are making some engineers very happy!

A rough number I was taught in the industry was that design costs should range between 5-10% of the total contract cost. It is just an average, but a good base to work with.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[NJ1]

I am going to review this project again and see real numbers. maybe engineering was not so much after all.

 

[MGXFP]

Design is by far the smallest costs to a job but very important to the overall costs.

Material and installation labor are two huge slices of the total costs pie.

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

Just to be clear I never bid a job based on square footage. It's a prescription for disaster.

I've seen this in "salesmen" which is why I hate working for large companies. They are the golden boys, they will do good by bidding lots of work and getting lots of work. Upper management will sing them praises and accolades until they have worked for the company for two years at which time the true cost of the projects will be made evident.

Unless I have done a near identical building recently (rare)I always do a preliminary layout, pick off the material, estimate labor, design and incidentals like travel and per diem.

But I do use it as a double check looking for similar jobs in the database to compare job costing.