job (structural engineering)

[NewGrad2009]

Hi, I have been reading this forum and I find it very helpful. Now I am looking for some career advise.

I have been looking for a job on and off for a year now. I finally graduated in May with a PhD in structural engineering. I also hold a master's degree in Architecture. I had about 2.5 years of internships in Arch and Engineering (non-structural). I have been applying for structural engineer positions in the Southern California area. I got a few interviews in late 2008/early 2009 and some of them told me that "we are not hiring now; but check with us if you have a job offer." Lately, my resume seems to just go into black holes with no response whatsoever.

I want to ask about the state of the job market in structural engineering. And if there is something about my background that is not landing a job.

Many thanks in advance!!!!!!

 

[hokie66]

I think it is a very tight job market all over. Have you tried the companies where you did the internships? Provided you left a good impression, that may be your best bet.

With a new PhD in structural engineering, I would think your best possibilities in this environment would be academia, a very large consulting firm, or research for a trade organization.

 

[Ron]

Agree with hokie66...your better opportunity is probably academia.

As hard as you worked for your PhD, you need to understand that many employers do not view the PhD as positively as you might think. While it is a necessity in academia, it can be a detriment in practical application...not that it is right, it's just a fact. Some employers are intimidated by it, some view it as giving you a more theoretical approach to problem solving than a practical one, and some just don't want to pay for it when they can get the same productivity out of a newbie with a BS degree.

If you were able to land an academic position, you could then work part time to build your resume with structural firms in the area and develop a reputation. That would be my suggestion.

 

[slickdeals]

I second Ron's opinion that PhD's are not viewed with the same respect that they deserve primarily because they are thought of as people who will provide complicated solutions to simple problems, part of it being due to them not being practical in their design and designing to the gnats ass when all it might take is to throw in a couple of extra bars and call it a day.

My firm believes that practical experience is more valuable than having a PhD......

 

[NewGrad2009]

Thanks for the replies.

@hokie66:
I am not trying with my prior internship companies b/c they are not structural firms and I want to be in structural engineering.

@Ron:
How does one work part time in structural firms? Since I am no longer in school, I can't work as an intern, right?

Overall, academic positions are hard to come by as well. States cutting funding to colleges and many schools are having hiring freeze. Most importantly, I prefer working in the industry and applications.

I am very interested in solving practical problems. I got a Masters in Architecture because I want to deal with the practical issues / integrated design between Structural Eng and Arch. I don't necessarily need to be paid as a PhD. My main objective is getting practice experience and working toward my PE.

 

[abusementpark]

What is your research background??

 

[NewGrad2009]

@abusementpark:

My research background is in structural dynamics, risk/reliability analysis, building energy analysis, life-cycle assessment...

In short, I am trying to design buildings such that they are safer, more reliable and sustainable at the same time by integrating structural and architectural components efficiently. I have learned a bit of everything in building design (sometime more than a bit) and I now want to learn the practical aspects.

I understand that I may not get to apply any of my research in practice. I am simply trying to gain enough practical experience now and in future possibly identify applications to use my research knowledge. But, in today's market, I cannot even get my feet into practice.

 

[Ron]

NewGrad...you can work as a subconsultant to structural firms. They will use you as a newbie...doing analysis, drawing details,etc., but as a subconsultant not as an employee...unless you luck out and get a part time position. Make sure they indemnify you (since you are not licensed, that shouldn't be a problem) and that your experience under their engineer in responsible charge will count toward your licensing time.

Sell the structural firm on the fact that you have a PhD, you will work for about the same amount as one of their EI's, and that they don't have to pay benefits. They should realize the benefit to them!

 

[GregLocock]

"PhD's are not viewed with the same respect that they deserve "

Hey do you want salt and vinegar with that chip on your shoulder?


Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[B16A2]

I third Ron's opinion. PhD pigeon holes you into a select group of design firms and narrows your market. You are definitely not the first PhD I've seen with this problem.

 

[FeX32]

I love salt and vinegar chips

Fe

 

[hokie66]

NewGrad,

You may have to extend your search beyond your area. With your education in architecture and structural engineering, you might try some of the big forensics firms. There are plenty of leaking buildings around. But then my impression is that architectural schools don't worry about teaching their students how to make their buildings shed water. Wherever you go, there will be a lot of training involved. No responsible firm will expect you to be able to hit the ground running.

 

[rowingengineer]

Architects are only on a project to do pretty drawings aren’t they?

When in doubt, just take the next small step.

 

[FSS]

Wow, an architect with a phD in structural engineering. That combines the two types of people structural engineers make fun of the most in our cruel stereotypical world. Unfortunately, Ron's opinions are dead on.

 

[JamesBarlow]

What is you BS, or Masters in?

Just because you have a PhD doesn't meant you need to headline with it.

I had my business cards done 3 times because they left off the P.E. after my name so I can only imagine how hard it would be to voluntary remove the PhD but it may at least get your foot in the door.

I would not remove it entirely from your resume but move it to the bottom and see if anyone asks.

I recently interviewed with 5 different people at a company. Only one of them even mentioned my degree.

 

[swivel63]

i think everyone's ideas on PHd's in SE are on point. i guess it's a good thing to have, but how often are you really doing that stuff? heck, i don't even some most of the stuff i saw in my master's program. though i saw the prandlt membrane analogy once. i almost laughed and had to call one of my grad school buddies over it.

i used to work with a few former PHd guys. one, i actually tried to show out on me over .5 inches of steel.

gee willikers.

 

[msquared48]

I hate to say it here as my intent is not to offend, but my perception and experience with PhD clients over the years is that PhD's deal with the theoretical and not the practical.

That could be the problem here if the perception of others is similar to mine. Clients are interested in saving money, but, in general will not finance huge research projects to do that.

You need to decide here which road you want to travel to make yourself happy.

Again, please do not take offense as I am speaking from my experience.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[hokie66]

NewGrad,

Hold your head high and be proud of your PhD. The best and most practical engineer I have ever worked with has a PhD in structural engineering. Every individual is different. If you were practical when you started, you can still be practical.

rowingengineer,

Yes, that seems to be what they think they are supposed to do. Sometimes, they are not even successful at that.

 

[rowingengineer]

Hokie has a good point, The a man whom I have worked with and I think is one of the best structural engineers has a Phd. He is practical and smart, So there is no reason why you couldn't be too.

As with anything it is all about perseverance.

When in doubt, just take the next small step.

 

[NewGrad2009]

Thanks for all the replies.

My BS is in Civil Eng; MS+PhD in Struc Eng and a MS-like degree in Architecture (not MArch).

I do intend to be practical. I realized in my undergrad there are many practical issue between Eng and Arch, so I wanted to study in both areas to learn from both perspectives. I am proud of my training and think my background will be valuable in building design.

Just that no one seems to want to hire a over-educated PhD with Arch training in this market. I do want to work my way up from entry positions; I realize that experience now is more important than pay and education for me.