Job Training? 1

[Ztrain1985]

I’ve been working for a company for about a year now, and I'm almost to the breaking point.

This is my first job out of college and I was thrilled to get it. They pay me well; in fact I have the highest starting salary of my class.

To avoid a wall of text, here are the highlights.
- When I started the job, I had no education in electrical power systems (my college focuses on computer/hardware, not power).
- They started me off doing drafting work, so I self - taught myself Autocad, and eventually they moved me up to checking electrical drawings for typos.
- My first project was probably 1.5 month after being hired, where I was told to copy an existing design and ask questions on anything I didn’t understand. Simple design project, 2-3 drawings, didn’t learn much from it, just copy and paste because that’s all there was to it.
- My next big assignment was a service upgrade. In this job, I was given the NEC and basically told do it, and ask any questions you have. I learned a lot from it as this was my first experience with the NEC but my learning was entirely reliant on asking questions.

As a side, its hard to ask questions you don’t know you should ask, or sometimes, the correct question to even ask.

- Next couple projects were all the same. Use the NEC, ask questions if you don’t understand something.

If money wasn’t involved, I would have a problem with this, except I am the sole designer/engineer on the project, so there is no one to check my work until the end review. It is here I normally find out they wanted the project done a certain way, but didn’t realize they had to tell me that. (ie. Use a certain brand of device, drawn a certain way, use a certain font, etc.)

With each project I have been on, I am the lead drafter, lead designer, and lead engineer. I am responsible for everything on the project, even work done by senior members of the company. I am responsible for contacting the client, arranging meetings, etc. I am also in charge of the drafters assigned to this projects. I am not instructed what to do, and typically have to use my own engineering judgment on how to solve something, or ask someone else and then decided what to do based on their answer.

Looking back I have learned a lot, but at the same time, I feel humiliated and useless when it comes time to review the project. The people who critique my work have been in the field for 10 years, sometimes up to 45. I am not a physical or wiring designer. I do not know the NEC or NFPA or UL codes. I am not a skilled drafter. This company does not have their own drafting/design/engineer standards I can look at it to learn from. It pretty much goes on a project by project basis.

Is my experience in the electrical power systems field typical and I just need to suck it up? Is this typical for small company of 50 to 60 people?

I feel so cheated going to school for engineer for 4 years, and walking away from it knowing almost nothing that assists me in the field I got into. I feel even more cheated working so hard in school under the belief that “work hard now so you can play later”, only to have no work some days of the week (extremely boring), and then being told “we are working overtime and weekends”, meaning I don’t get to see my family, friends, or Girl Friend (I have a 1.5 hour commute so overtimes means get up, go to work all day, go to bed).

At least hearing this is typical would let me know Im not alone in dealing with this. Thanks for taking the time to read this by the way, I’m just really down at the moment.

 

[TheTick]

Get out.

This is not what you want for a first job. You need to be with other engineers. Otherwise, you are damaging your future employability.

Start applying and interviewing. When asked why you are leaving so soon, say you are looking for a place that will enable you to develop professionally and learn from other engineers.

 

[ctopher]

This is typical for your first job out of college. I think it's a plus for a company to say "Here do this, ask questions". I have started many companies that say "Here do this" and everyone is too busy to answer questions.
Ask all questions you have. You will only come out ahead if you ask, no matter how stupid the question may be.
Ask for help from the elders and techs...lots of good knowledge there.
Study the NEC, you will need it often.
"...need to suck it up? Is this typical for small company of 50 to 60 people?"
yes and yes.

A lot of us have been where you are. Hold your head up and learn what you can. You will do well.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Apr 30, 2008)

 

[ykee]

Most engineering degrees teach you little about what you will be doing, they provide you with the background to do your job, and learn things quickly.

Feedback in the working world is different from school in that most of the time, the only feedback you get will be negative. If you haven't had any get upset with you, you are probably doing a decent job, even if you drawings come back covered in red ink.

As for the self-learning thing, some people thrive on this, others hate it. The other end of the spectrum would be micro-management.

If this workplace doesn't meet your needs, look for somewhere else to work (personally I'd start looking just to avoid the commute!)

 

[KENAT]

Can you institute some kind of preliminary or interim design review?

Basically, after you have it schemed out but before too much detail drafting is done can you get the interested parties together to take a look before you spend the time fully detailing everything? I'm a mechanical background, maybe it doesn't work electrically, but this is typical in what I've seen.

In many ways you sound like me after 1 year, though I didnt' have the luxury of days with nothing to do but then nor did I get forced to work weekends etc.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[Ztrain1985]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

To Kenat, I have brought that up, and so have other people, but nothing has changed. The bosses are the people who review the drawings, and naturally they have no time, so it doesnt happen until its time to send out the drawing.

Ykee, for the most part its been that way. No positive feed-back, not even a thanks for working 12 hours on the weekend. My one boss doesnt seem pleased me with me (I have 3 bosses), but he seems to be like that with everyone and said they probably gave me to much work to quickly. Not that it mattered, they gave me a larger project next time with a rush schedule.

Ctopher, your probably right, but thats such a bummer. You think they would rather train you then flounder around and cost the company more money to fix the mistakes one makes rather then shadow a professional and learn/do the work at the same time.

TheTick, I agree with you, its just hard to find jobs in my area of the US. It would be an even longer commute then what I have now for most of the openings. Im considering using a head hunter though, because I just dont have the time (or resources) to actively sit down every night like I need too.

 

[svanels]

I feel so cheated going to school for engineer for 4 years, and walking away from it knowing almost nothing that assists me in the field I got into.

Welcome to the real world, your University has the obligation to deliver professionals who can play a leading role in the Universe. They will give you the tools to work outside, help you to develop critical thinking in a certain field of engineering etc., if you will use it, that is up to you.
A lot of us have an engineering degree, but if we have to compare our job descriptions after 5-10 years working, to what we were told in school..

This company does not have their own drafting/design/engineer standards I can look at it to learn from.

If you are a real engineer you can make them yourself, that is adapting the ansi,nec etc. standards for own specific needs (also called best practices).

Maybe 5-10 years from now you will be the one hiring a fresh engineer, and when he whines too much, you will ask him what he has learned in school. You will be able to guide him because once you started there also.

 

[ykee]

svanels - I think you are being a little harsh, it really does sound like the company that Ztrain1985 works for could use some work on how they use their resources. Any sort of training program & set of standards would likely go a long way in increasing productivity and reducing errors.

 

[ewh]

For what it's worth, many companies of this size work this way. They throw you in and it is sink or swim. Be glad of the fact that you aren't sinking. While this can be an excellent learning environment, I tend to agree with tick that more daily give and take with engineers would be of benefit. I'm not so sure about damaging your future employability though.
As far as drawing standards, get the company to spring for the Genium Drafting Manual. Small price to pay to get everyone on the same page.

Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare. - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[svanels]

Maybe I am, but when I started the first day, I also had the impression that I was thrown for the wolves, after a year things cleared up, but at that time I was able to see the bigger picture.

With each project I have been on, I am the lead drafter, lead designer, and lead engineer. I am responsible for everything on the project

When you apply for your next job, this experience can be converted in cash, so I would not look at it in a negative way. It also will be your passport to move higher in the foodchain at the same company

 

[Ztrain1985]

Svanels, I do have my own set operating procedures I’ve developed while working here. Essentially a check list of things to do. I’ve been compiling notes about the NEC, and creating Excel spread sheets to expedite the simple Engineering Tasks.

But as for creating standards? What good does that do since the entire company has to adopt the system. I’ve actually tried making tutorials for things like our Clients Drawing Database system, but the bosses never get around to reviewing it so it just sits on my desk. The other major problem is each boss has a different view on what’s right, and often contradict each other on how to do things.

Maybe im not a “real engineer”, but part of my intention of posting is to get other peoples views on my situation and as I said, see “if I need to suck it up”.

 

[ykee]

Not having company wide standards can lead to problems, but its not uncommon. At least you recognize the need for common standards.

As to whether or not you need to "suck it up" I guess that's up to you to decide if you want to stick it out with this company or find another job. Does the work challenge you? Are you learning and enjoying the problem solving offered to you? Are you growing professionally? Do you like your work environment?

Just remember, no job is a life sentence, take the job for what it is, and one you have no further opportunity for growth, or are bored, unhappy etc, start using the contacts that you have made to find another job.

 

[Gymmeh]

I am currently in a very similar situation. (Hopefully changing jobs shortly )

The only difference is I do mechanical & Structural Design, and they didnt say "if you have questions ask," I was told to figure it, find another solution, or decline the job.

So far I have been swimming, but it really gets old.

I recommend looking for another job ASAP, and use your position to get leverage for your ideal position.

 

[Ztrain1985]

Thanks everyone for the answers.

I think I'm gonna go sit in the corner and sort through all this.

 

[PSE]

A company of 50-60 from my experience tends to be run by a series of Ad-hoc procedures and is just in the infancy stage of having some standardization taking root. You might become part of that transition/growth. You will be learning much in the way of business operations etc out of necessity (sheer survival). Schooling does not prepare grads for this (internships may help a little). I'm not too keen on the 3 bosses bit though. You can end up being "pulled" in too many directions at the same time. That is something I would work to resolve (perhaps by leaving for a more established/organized company), as it could be a recipe for disaster.

Regards,

 

[svanels]

By the way, having 3 bosses is very unusual, who are you reporting to?
When you have too many chiefs for one indian, you will never win a war

 

[Ztrain1985]

I report to different people whenever I get assigned a project. For instance if im working with Structural, I report to the structural project manager. Mechanical, the mechanical project manager. I still report to head of the electrical department regardless of my project.

When it comes time to check electrical drawings, we have three checkers; the project manager, the chief electrical, and one of the bosses of the company. Often times they disagree on how something should be shown because they don’t stick to their assigned checking roles (or dont understand why it was done that way, typically because the client asked for it), which tends to result in redesign/redrawing/arguing.

This is particularly painful a few days before the project is due and it’s the first time they’ve looked at the drawings (or project for that matter).

I’ve gotten better at managing them, and pretty much ask all three and get it approved by all of them before I draw it, but it still doesn’t solve the no checking until its about to go out the door issues.

 

[calguy07]

haha, that sounds almost exactly like my job; also in electric power/utilities...there's nothing i like more than being my own drafter, designer, engineer, material orderer, checker and project manager. i like when i'm given a project and told to go run with it. just leave me in a corner and i'll check back with you when i'm done. i do a much better job working alone.

btw, the best way to learn IS to make mistakes (not catastrophic ones) and to have the drawings handed back to you with tons of red and green on it. second best way to learn is to ask questions. most of the time as you say, its hard to realize exactly where you don't understand something then actually wording it in a way that yeilds the actual answer that you're looking for (or you need).

 

[csd72]

re:"I do not know the NEC or NFPA or UL codes."

On what are you basing your designs then?

If you dont know the codes, learn them!

The learning does stop stop after graduation, in fact it has only just begun.

Also see if they can send you to a course on your type of work so that you understand it better.

You dont know what to ask questions about, well ask about everything that you do not completely understand. The earlier you start asking the less of an idiot you look (raw graduates are expected to know nothing anyway).

 

[Gymmeh]

Star to csd72,

I sleep with my code books... jk jk