Junior engineer seeking wisdom 12

[thrice]

I'm a graduate engineer in Melbourne, Australia.
I've had something on my mind for a while now, and this seems like a good place to find some answers.
I have been working for about a year for a one man business. My boss is very hands on, spends about 10 hours a day at work, and is a qualified draftsman and commercial builder. We focus mainly on domestic/industrial work.

He is very detailed (in the sense of how things fit together) and has imparted that onto me. The thing is, he's not technically gifted in the design sense. He still uses working stress, which I assume is not allowed, and rarely can explain WHY he does things the way he does. A lot of his work is repetitive and he just goes with what works.

My question to the wise and experienced engineers reading this, I feel like I am gaining valuable situational experience with every job I do, but will it be possible for me to further develop my knowledge of the technical side I spoke of without guidance/someone to correct my misinterpretations? If so, any recommended textbooks/learning aids? Has anyone done so?

Another thing is that I have to draft all of my own work. Its frustrating but I have become fairly quick at it, and it does help at times with engineering. However, am I wasting my time?

Apart from what I asked above, if any other structural engineers in Australia could give me a glimpse of the things they work on day to day, I would be greatly appreciative.

Sorry for the long winded post, and thanks in advance.

 

[Guest262653]

@Latexman
My standard response to seniors that try to bully me around is replying in the softest, calmest and deepest tone I can manage. That always works on their nerves: keeping calm when they throw everything at you...

Regards,
Avscorreia

 

[jmcoope3]

I work under a similar circumstance: I got hired in a satellite office of a larger firm, the only other engineer out here is the companies Principal Structural Engineer (the guys been designing buildings since dinosaur bones were considered a structural member). He's vague, rude, paranoid, openly sexist and racist, and he makes it a point to get us booted off of almost every job site we go to.

However, he's unbelievably good at his job. He can do more with pen, paper, and his fingers and toes than I can do with a modeling computer, Risa, MathCAD, AutoCAD, etc...

I made the mistake early on in my career to assume that I was hired to train and replace him, my perceptions of his work weren't what they are now. After a particularly bad exchange between him and a client that cost us a sizable job i brought it up to the guy that runs our office. He told me "The only way a guy like that gets to stay here is he's either sleeping with the boss, or he's worth it... and I'm the boss and I love my wife. He's definitely worth it, you're a valuable asset here, but it'll take you a lifetime to be where he is. We hired you to do what he tells you and to send to job-sites instead of him. Consider it a privilege to work with him".

Needless to say, I was pissed at first. But then again, I was young and thought I was going to change the world of engineering right out of the gate.

Looking back on it, I've learned more from him than I have from any class at school. Your boss may seem like an old cook, but keep in mind he's running a business, being and engineer, and being a teacher. He pulls long hours because it takes time and focus to do these things, he might not have time to teach you something that's easily found in a book or online.

Value the time you have with someone that can look at something you've spent hours working on and tell you if its going to work or not in minutes. You'll miss it.

 

[patprimmer]

thrice.

I don't see where you say your boss is a formally qualified or licensed engineer, just a draughtsman and builder. Did you mean these as additional qualifications, or is he not actually licensed.



Regards
Pat
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[thrice]

Hi all. Thanks for all the input.

patprimmer: He is a qualified/chartered Civil Engineer.
hurricanes: Thanks for your input. I went and bought the Steel Designers Handbook last night. Just started reading it.

Since I have the opportunity for some advice, I thought I might elaborate further.

I think those who mentioned that he shouldn't be dismissed so easily have a point. It's true, he does fly through work I struggle on, and seemingly never gets stuck on anything.
He also has an interesting approach with his architectural/building background. He rarely lets a job leave our office that will come back with unforeseen problems. I have a great deal of respect for him in that sense.

However hurricanes brings up my biggest worry, my time breakdown on a typical job is as follows:
10% Conceptualisation
15% Load estimation on structural members
15% Design of structural members
60% Drafting and detailing (I draft my details as I work them out)

That seems like a lot of time drafting.

The design process is very automated as well, he has refined a system which doesn't need me to do hand comps (rarely I do something by hand), but allows me to finish jobs fairly quickly.

Any more opinions would be appreciated, and thanks again to everyone who has contributed so far.

 

[zdas04]

Latexman,
You must work in a kind and gentle industry. If I said something like that the immediate comeback would be "currently on?" or "smells like it".

David

 

[Latexman]

Not hardly. One young lady Engineer said something like "and if you ever tell me that again you will get the world's most painful wedgie". She has become one of the best Engineers I know!

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[jmw]

Now what did you tell her to provoke that reaction?
Oh, the "I wear underwear older than you" witticism.

Yeah, you're lucky she was in a good mood or HR would have had a Latexman Roast, valued oldie or not.
No telling where these interspecies underwear discussions can lead but HR certainly doesn't want them to end up in court.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Latexman]

It was all in fun. Shop talk.

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[IRstuff]

Sounds like you need to have a talk with your boss about how your future is going look. I think that you probably will have only another year of useful experience with him if nothing changes. At some point in time, he'll need to get you more involved in the upfront engineering, but that would mean hiring someone to do the drafting; which is partly an econometric question, as that would imply an increase in business. But, is he personally interested in increasing business? Some people are perfectly happy running a one-man shop.

And do bear in mind that many people talk the talk, but often can't walk the walk. I've gotten several childcare experiences where the provider will wax about the academic programs they're going to add that will help my child do even better in school, but they more often than not don't come to fruition.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[jmw]

It was all in fun. Shop talk.

I wonder how often that excuse has worked? It has shades of "I was only following orders".



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[brandonbw]

I think more experienced engineers have their place as a lot of them design on the safer side and their past most likely proves this. But I also think there are products and newer designs that can be better. I don't think you will see owners of companies approaching problems with better solutions unless they are younger or very involved in keeping up with current standards/designs.

After a while you design a certain way, and it would make a little sense that you forget why you do it a certain way. You just know this is right and it has always worked. I am too young for that idea, but I could see that easily happening just after 5 years.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

 

[TheTick]

Thrice is learning that details take time. Soon he may learn that missed details take even more time.

 

[SnTMan]

TheTick, so true, difficult to appreciate till you've been there.

Regards,

Mike

 

[KENAT]

Well, as a relatively younger guy I have to say all this guff about older folks sucking is just that.

I've yet to meet an inexperienced engineer that was better or more valuable than some old gray hair - myself included.

Sure, folks can get a bit stuck in their ways - but not all do.

As en employer, while there is a place for training up talent, from a short term point of view why hire someone of limited use to train up if you can get a geezer with tons of experience already? Obviously there can be economic factors... but the obsession with youth.

Sure there are situations where more open minded albeit inexperienced folks come up with great ideas and make billions etc. However, there are probably 100's of times when the kid makes a dumb call and the seniors have to explain why it's a stupid idea or clear up the mess.

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[zdas04]

I regularly meet "experienced" engineers and leave with the feeling that they don't really have 25 years experience, they have 6 months experience 50 times. They learned everything they were ever going to know 6 months out of school and have been coasting on that ever since.

I also know actual experienced engineers whose "experience level" is significantly higher than their years of practice would indicate. They've spent time learning, teaching, mentoring, expanding their horizons. Many of them are really jerks, but they are decidedly worth listening to.

I also have known a few 3 year engineers that were worth listening to. I don't think that the bottom line is the grey (or lack of it) in a person's hair, I think the key issue is the openness of their mind.

David

 

[KENAT]

You're right there are some older folks that don't bring much to the party, however I'm inclined to think it's generally the exception not norm - just like the really good inexperienced folk.

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[ewh]

the key issue is the openness of their mind

Technically, the glass is always full.

 

[SnTMan]

I would ask, as a courtesy, that before one, young, old, doesn't matter, offers up a change that he / she make some attempt to understand why things are done as they currently are. There quite often are reasons, you know

Regards,

Mike

 

[patprimmer]

Experience only helps if we learn from it. many stop learning.

Some stop learning the day they finish uni, some stop some time later and some never stop learning.

Those that never stop learning have a driving irresistable hunger for knowledge.

Guess which ones I like to work with.



Regards
Pat
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